Luger I found... PRISTINE - Page 3

historybuffguy@aol.com · 08-13-2003, 10:36 PM

Thanks Saxman.....

There is no pitting, or rust of anywhere.... There is some dust/lint from being wrapped up in a cotton towel...

I definately will lead it up to an expert to handle and/or clean the gun....

Thanks again... Robert..

historybuffguy@aol.com · 08-14-2003, 12:19 AM

Thanks Saxman....

I definitely don't see any rust spots anywhere.... there is just some dust/lint here and there from being wrapped in a cotton towel.......

Yes... cleaning would be left to a professional.....

Thanks again... Robert...

Imperial Arms · 08-14-2003, 12:26 AM

Historybuffguy,

My advice to clean the pistol as follows:

1) Go to your local gun shop and ask if they a can of Rig Universal Grease (and maybe a Rig Wipe);

2) If you cannot find it, it can be ordered online from:

Rig Grease
http://www.silencio.com/htfiles/chemicals.html

Rig Rag (Wipe):
http://www.silencio.com/htfiles/accessories.html

Rub some grease into the Rig Wiper (wool) and just wipe down your Luger. It removes all finger prints and applies a light protective coat of grease on the Luger which does not 'gum' up.

This method is the simpliest and cheapest way to care for your Luger and it beats any gun oil.

In addition, buy a good quality pistol pouch to store your pistol in the safe deposit box. I have done this for 20 years and I have never received a speck of rust on my pistols.

Just make sure that you pamper it often!

Cheers,
Albert

historybuffguy@aol.com · 08-14-2003, 12:32 AM

Thanks Albert for the tip....

I didn't realize the work involved "raising" a Luger... LOL

I will make sure it's done right, as to preserve it for a 100 more years...

Thanks again for the links... Robert..

Big Norm · 08-14-2003, 02:56 AM

HistoryBuffLuckBoxGuy,
I personally don't know about the Sperm Whale coating on the strawed parts. It was brought up some time ago on this forum and I just accepted it. Sperm Whales were not protected in the 1906's and the oil was used for many things. But this is a light coating of something that was put on the strawed parts for temporary protection. Many people clean it off. But when I look at a Luger that still has it on, I know that that gun has not beem messed with.

The Rig grease that was mentioned earlier is good stuff and most gun shows will have someone selling the stuff. Apply liberally but try to keep it off if the wood grips. Oil darkens grips and weakens them.

If you or anyone else handles the gun try doing it with cotten gloves on. The sweat from your hands over a long time will ruin the perfect bluing that you have. A light washing with alcohol to remove the salt from your hands should be done before applying Rig. Watch the 'History of the Gun' on TV and see what Kind on gloves they use on good guns.

Forget Kitchens. He lost his gun, fair and square. This may be the one that I lost while saving a dog with puppies that were trapped on a centerstrip of a heavy traffic highway. I think the dog and its pups belonged to an invalid elderly nun. Raising and selling these pups was her only source of income. I thought that the puppies were more important than the gun.
Big Norm

LU1900 · 08-14-2003, 05:17 AM

.........

Lugerdoc · 08-14-2003, 08:11 AM

Robert, Considering the circumstances of your recent purchase and it being a fine collector grade rarity, I would want to check with local law enforcement to see if it shows up on the hot sheet. This is why I always get name, rank and driver's license number from any seller, in case I have to go back to them, if the gun is hot. Fortunately, it's only happened to me twice in 35 years. TH

Aaron · 08-14-2003, 11:22 AM

My advice is to not store guns in safe deposit boxes because:

1. In the event of your death the feds take immediate possession of the contents of the box, and who knows what will happen to the gun?

2. You never know what the box next to yours has stored in it. It could be a stash of dope or some chemical which gives off corrosive fumes which will damage your pistol.

historybuffguy@aol.com · 08-14-2003, 11:54 AM

Thanks again for the tips.....

I do have the business card from the guy I bought the Luger from...... He buys and resells estates.

I will call him tonight, and ask if he could give me some more info. on the Luger. All I know is that it came from a US Army officer that served in World War II, and that he has several other guns like a P-38.

When I bought the Luger.... he (the seller) was positive it was a Swiss Luger, based on a photo he saw on the internet, and he did not want the gun for that reason.

He did not know the caliber of the gun, and also thought the French markings on the barrel were import marks from France (like I did).

Thanks again, Robert...

historybuffguy@aol.com · 08-14-2003, 01:12 PM

Good news...

I went to the Squaw Peak Police Precinct at 24th Street/Lincoln Drive in Phoenix, and just got back... It's a "Clean Machine."

They used their nation-wide data base on stolen and/or missing guns and it has never been, nor ever been reported stolen...

I wish there was a place on the internet to search for this type of info. Does a site exist??? Thanks again... Robert...

John Sabato · 08-14-2003, 02:24 PM

No such site exists for ordinary citizens... although a few attempts have been made... you made a good decision to check with your local police... I hope you got a copy of the "negative" report for your files on this gun.

Once again... Congrats!

historybuffguy@aol.com · 08-14-2003, 05:30 PM

Thanks JS......

Yes... it's just a simple piece of paper with not much on it....

Thanks again... Robert...

Jim Keenan · 08-14-2003, 10:16 PM

I guess my comments will be as welcome as the proverbial "you know what" in church, but I am puzzled. Manufacture Francaise d'Armes et Cycles de Saint-Etienne was probably the biggest arms and ammunition manufacturer in France outside the government arsenals. It is possible that they entered into an agreement to sell Lugers in France through their own distribution system, but in that period I doubt there would be many sales in France for a pistol made by the hated Germans. Maybe the French marking was intended to deceive the public into believing that the Luger was a French product, but that seems a stretch. The manual in French (mentioned by Kenyon), though, would seem to indicate some intended market in that country.

The marking on this pistol, while it appears to have been applied before bluing, was obviously applied after final polishing. That does not mean it was not applied at the factory, only that other markings applied at the factory were applied before polishing. It could have been applied in France (or elsewhere) and the barrel reblued.

It is also possible that the French company would buy a few pistols to examine them (as all gun makers do with the competition) and maybe for ammunition testing, and that they would put their mark on as an indication of ownership. (They would hardly ask DWM for a French manual, though.)

The absence of French proofs (this gun as well as the Kenyon example) indicates that the guns were not offered for sale on the market in France.

As to the story of a projected DWM factory in France, it sounds good, but I doubt it for the same reason noted above; the French hated the Germans and all their works and pomps and their pistols for good measure.

I wonder if we have any French collectors on the site who could find out if those pistols are known in France.

Jim

G.W. Gill · 08-15-2003, 01:22 AM

H.B.Guy, Buy one of those old iron safes, or something else they can't get into with a sawsall, and put it away till your golden age.

LU1900 · 08-15-2003, 04:38 AM

In this period the french don't hated germans and the "manu" sold also mauser C96 the german pistol where the best in this time. Just the "manu add one nÃ?Â° on the bottom of the frame it was before the first world war.The book of the "manu" in my link is 1913 stamped.Hello Jim you must reed me 9 post up . Pat

saxman · 08-17-2003, 08:11 PM

So, nobody but me can see the brown under the blue in the RH side frame 'ear' or the green corrosion in the nickel magazine tube at the front edge of the follower? Some rust is also starting in the toggle joints. This is an incredible Luger, and the only brand new one I've ever seen photos of. I had learned, of course, that they didn't rust blue the inside surfaces of the frame, and I wonder if that was because it would be difficult to card the 'rust' on the inside, or perhaps because the beauty of the bright machined surfaces was enhanced by the deep gray-blue of the finish. Whatever, a brand new pre-war Luger is indeed a sight to behold.

Edward Tinker · 08-19-2003, 12:25 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by historybuffguy@aol.com:
Yes... it's just a simple piece of paper with not much on it.... Robert...<hr /></blockquote>That is how you want it, one with names and dates is bad news <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> When I used to run NCIC, hot guns came up mistakenly at times, and that always gets people excited.

Ed

jamese · 08-19-2003, 04:45 PM

I along with a few other forum members have access to NCIC database records.

If you buying a gun from an unkown its always a good idea to check before exchanging the cash

If any member wants me to check a gun just send me a private e-mail and I can run a check for you, however with that, if any gun comes back suspect I would have to report the information to the proper local jurisdiction to take whatever corrective action is warranted.

historybuffguy@aol.com · 08-19-2003, 07:25 PM

Wow..... that's a get service to collectors to have access to the NCIC database...

I really appreciate your help in sharing this info. to those who may need it... Thanks again... Robert..

John Sabato · 08-20-2003, 09:39 AM

jamese,

Thanks for offering your services and being ethical about it...

now...may I politely take exception to your signature block:

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> --------------------
The truth is a matter of Perception <hr /></blockquote>I don't know the source of this sentence... but IMHO I can't agree... Truth is an absolute... the fact that an individual's perception can distort the truth doesn't make it any less the truth...

May I ask where this quote comes from?

Thanks,

John S

08-14-2003, 05:17 AM	#46
LU1900 User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: FRANCE Posts: 900 Thanks: 35 Thanked 461 Times in 193 Posts	......... __________________ Best regards from France...Patrice https://www.fichier-pdf.fr/2016/03/1...nd-snail-drum/

08-14-2003, 08:11 AM	#47
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Robert, Considering the circumstances of your recent purchase and it being a fine collector grade rarity, I would want to check with local law enforcement to see if it shows up on the hot sheet. This is why I always get name, rank and driver's license number from any seller, in case I have to go back to them, if the gun is hot. Fortunately, it's only happened to me twice in 35 years. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

08-14-2003, 02:24 PM	#51
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	No such site exists for ordinary citizens... although a few attempts have been made... you made a good decision to check with your local police... I hope you got a copy of the "negative" report for your files on this gun. Once again... Congrats! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-15-2003, 04:38 AM	#55
LU1900 User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: FRANCE Posts: 900 Thanks: 35 Thanked 461 Times in 193 Posts	In this period the french don't hated germans and the "manu" sold also mauser C96 the german pistol where the best in this time. Just the "manu add one nÃ?Â° on the bottom of the frame it was before the first world war.The book of the "manu" in my link is 1913 stamped.Hello Jim you must reed me 9 post up . Pat __________________ Best regards from France...Patrice https://www.fichier-pdf.fr/2016/03/1...nd-snail-drum/

08-17-2003, 08:11 PM	#56
saxman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 301 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	So, nobody but me can see the brown under the blue in the RH side frame 'ear' or the green corrosion in the nickel magazine tube at the front edge of the follower? Some rust is also starting in the toggle joints. This is an incredible Luger, and the only brand new one I've ever seen photos of. I had learned, of course, that they didn't rust blue the inside surfaces of the frame, and I wonder if that was because it would be difficult to card the 'rust' on the inside, or perhaps because the beauty of the bright machined surfaces was enhanced by the deep gray-blue of the finish. Whatever, a brand new pre-war Luger is indeed a sight to behold. __________________ You can lead 'em to the water, but you can't make 'em drink.

08-13-2003, 10:36 PM	#41
historybuffguy@aol.com User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Phoenix Posts: 37 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Saxman..... There is no pitting, or rust of anywhere.... There is some dust/lint from being wrapped up in a cotton towel... I definately will lead it up to an expert to handle and/or clean the gun.... Thanks again... Robert..

08-14-2003, 12:19 AM	#42
historybuffguy@aol.com User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Phoenix Posts: 37 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Saxman.... I definitely don't see any rust spots anywhere.... there is just some dust/lint here and there from being wrapped in a cotton towel....... Yes... cleaning would be left to a professional..... Thanks again... Robert...

08-14-2003, 12:26 AM	#43
Imperial Arms Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Malta, EU Posts: 579 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Historybuffguy, My advice to clean the pistol as follows: 1) Go to your local gun shop and ask if they a can of Rig Universal Grease (and maybe a Rig Wipe); 2) If you cannot find it, it can be ordered online from: Rig Grease http://www.silencio.com/htfiles/chemicals.html Rig Rag (Wipe): http://www.silencio.com/htfiles/accessories.html Rub some grease into the Rig Wiper (wool) and just wipe down your Luger. It removes all finger prints and applies a light protective coat of grease on the Luger which does not 'gum' up. This method is the simpliest and cheapest way to care for your Luger and it beats any gun oil. In addition, buy a good quality pistol pouch to store your pistol in the safe deposit box. I have done this for 20 years and I have never received a speck of rust on my pistols. Just make sure that you pamper it often! Cheers, Albert

08-14-2003, 12:32 AM	#44
historybuffguy@aol.com User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Phoenix Posts: 37 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Albert for the tip.... I didn't realize the work involved "raising" a Luger... LOL I will make sure it's done right, as to preserve it for a 100 more years... Thanks again for the links... Robert..

08-14-2003, 02:56 AM	#45
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	HistoryBuffLuckBoxGuy, I personally don't know about the Sperm Whale coating on the strawed parts. It was brought up some time ago on this forum and I just accepted it. Sperm Whales were not protected in the 1906's and the oil was used for many things. But this is a light coating of something that was put on the strawed parts for temporary protection. Many people clean it off. But when I look at a Luger that still has it on, I know that that gun has not beem messed with. The Rig grease that was mentioned earlier is good stuff and most gun shows will have someone selling the stuff. Apply liberally but try to keep it off if the wood grips. Oil darkens grips and weakens them. If you or anyone else handles the gun try doing it with cotten gloves on. The sweat from your hands over a long time will ruin the perfect bluing that you have. A light washing with alcohol to remove the salt from your hands should be done before applying Rig. Watch the 'History of the Gun' on TV and see what Kind on gloves they use on good guns. Forget Kitchens. He lost his gun, fair and square. This may be the one that I lost while saving a dog with puppies that were trapped on a centerstrip of a heavy traffic highway. I think the dog and its pups belonged to an invalid elderly nun. Raising and selling these pups was her only source of income. I thought that the puppies were more important than the gun. Big Norm

08-14-2003, 11:22 AM	#48
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	My advice is to not store guns in safe deposit boxes because: 1. In the event of your death the feds take immediate possession of the contents of the box, and who knows what will happen to the gun? 2. You never know what the box next to yours has stored in it. It could be a stash of dope or some chemical which gives off corrosive fumes which will damage your pistol.

08-14-2003, 11:54 AM	#49
historybuffguy@aol.com User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Phoenix Posts: 37 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks again for the tips..... I do have the business card from the guy I bought the Luger from...... He buys and resells estates. I will call him tonight, and ask if he could give me some more info. on the Luger. All I know is that it came from a US Army officer that served in World War II, and that he has several other guns like a P-38. When I bought the Luger.... he (the seller) was positive it was a Swiss Luger, based on a photo he saw on the internet, and he did not want the gun for that reason. He did not know the caliber of the gun, and also thought the French markings on the barrel were import marks from France (like I did). Thanks again, Robert...

08-14-2003, 01:12 PM	#50
historybuffguy@aol.com User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Phoenix Posts: 37 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Good news... I went to the Squaw Peak Police Precinct at 24th Street/Lincoln Drive in Phoenix, and just got back... It's a "Clean Machine." They used their nation-wide data base on stolen and/or missing guns and it has never been, nor ever been reported stolen... I wish there was a place on the internet to search for this type of info. Does a site exist??? Thanks again... Robert...

08-14-2003, 05:30 PM	#52
historybuffguy@aol.com User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Phoenix Posts: 37 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks JS...... Yes... it's just a simple piece of paper with not much on it.... Thanks again... Robert...

08-14-2003, 10:16 PM	#53
Jim Keenan User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 184 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I guess my comments will be as welcome as the proverbial "you know what" in church, but I am puzzled. Manufacture Francaise d'Armes et Cycles de Saint-Etienne was probably the biggest arms and ammunition manufacturer in France outside the government arsenals. It is possible that they entered into an agreement to sell Lugers in France through their own distribution system, but in that period I doubt there would be many sales in France for a pistol made by the hated Germans. Maybe the French marking was intended to deceive the public into believing that the Luger was a French product, but that seems a stretch. The manual in French (mentioned by Kenyon), though, would seem to indicate some intended market in that country. The marking on this pistol, while it appears to have been applied before bluing, was obviously applied after final polishing. That does not mean it was not applied at the factory, only that other markings applied at the factory were applied before polishing. It could have been applied in France (or elsewhere) and the barrel reblued. It is also possible that the French company would buy a few pistols to examine them (as all gun makers do with the competition) and maybe for ammunition testing, and that they would put their mark on as an indication of ownership. (They would hardly ask DWM for a French manual, though.) The absence of French proofs (this gun as well as the Kenyon example) indicates that the guns were not offered for sale on the market in France. As to the story of a projected DWM factory in France, it sounds good, but I doubt it for the same reason noted above; the French hated the Germans and all their works and pomps and their pistols for good measure. I wonder if we have any French collectors on the site who could find out if those pistols are known in France. Jim

08-15-2003, 01:22 AM	#54
G.W. Gill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeastern USA Posts: 369 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	H.B.Guy, Buy one of those old iron safes, or something else they can't get into with a sawsall, and put it away till your golden age.

08-19-2003, 12:25 AM	#57
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by historybuffguy@aol.com: <strong>Yes... it's just a simple piece of paper with not much on it.... Robert...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">That is how you want it, one with names and dates is bad news <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> When I used to run NCIC, hot guns came up mistakenly at times, and that always gets people excited. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-19-2003, 04:45 PM	#58
jamese User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: South Florida Posts: 789 Thanks: 0 Thanked 84 Times in 34 Posts	I along with a few other forum members have access to NCIC database records. If you buying a gun from an unkown its always a good idea to check before exchanging the cash If any member wants me to check a gun just send me a private e-mail and I can run a check for you, however with that, if any gun comes back suspect I would have to report the information to the proper local jurisdiction to take whatever corrective action is warranted. __________________ The "truth" is a matter of Perception

08-19-2003, 07:25 PM	#59
historybuffguy@aol.com User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Phoenix Posts: 37 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Wow..... that's a get service to collectors to have access to the NCIC database... I really appreciate your help in sharing this info. to those who may need it... Thanks again... Robert..

08-20-2003, 09:39 AM	#60
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	jamese, Thanks for offering your services and being ethical about it... now...may I politely take exception to your signature block: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva"> -------------------- The truth is a matter of Perception </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I don't know the source of this sentence... but IMHO I can't agree... Truth is an absolute... the fact that an individual's perception can distort the truth doesn't make it any less the truth... May I ask where this quote comes from? Thanks, John S __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*