Newbie With First Luger:

[gvf]

Originally Posted by Don M

Correct. It is generally believed that all or nearly all went to the police.

Thanks all. Well I'm to do the last paperwork stages and hopefully pick it up.

soon
jerry
"gvf"

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by gvf

I saw my gun today but in NY State permits are not a general carte blanche to Carry/Shoot any gun but only those guns one owns which are put on the Permit.

Can you dry fire these?

The procedure actually varies by county in NYS. Some accept electronic receipts from the transferring dealer, which can save a trip to the county clerk. ...And some do not. For those counties, you'd need to pay for the gun to get a receipt, register it and add it to the permit--which is what generates a purchase coupon, then return to the dealer to turn in the coupon and have the background check, after which it is transferred to you.

Mine, Schuyler, gives out a spare purchase coupon ahead of time so that a purchase/transfer can be made before the gun is actually registered or put on my permit. The receipt from the dealer covers this aspect temporarily, for transit home with the gun. What I usually do is obtain the serial number from the seller's pics and register it before it arrives, adding it to my permit. When I pick it up at the dealer's, I give him the coupon, get the background check, and take 'er home--just one trip. I'm always one coupon ahead, so free to make a purchase from any dealer in-state--before the paperwork--and take the gun home immediately, to be registered at the next opportunity.

[gvf]

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

The procedure actually varies by county in NYS. Some accept electronic receipts from the transferring dealer, which can save a trip to the county clerk. ...And some do not. For those counties, you'd need to pay for the gun to get a receipt, register it and add it to the permit--which is what generates a purchase coupon, then return to the dealer to turn in the coupon and have the background check, after which it is transferred to you.

Mine, Schuyler, gives out a spare purchase coupon ahead of time so that a purchase/transfer can be made before the gun is actually registered or put on my permit. The receipt from the dealer covers this aspect temporarily, for transit home with the gun. What I usually do is obtain the serial number from the seller's pics and register it before it arrives, adding it to my permit. When I pick it up at the dealer's, I give him the coupon, get the background check, and take 'er home--just one trip. I'm always one coupon ahead, so free to make a purchase from any dealer in-state--before the paperwork--and take the gun home immediately, to be registered at the next opportunity.

I live in Erie County and have never heard of anything but physically going the Permit Office after filling out transfer forms at FFL and that's where you pay for the FFL service, whatever it may be.

What you describe sounds like a lot less like a pain. Wish we had it but don't think so. Next time I'll check.

Thanks
Jerry
"gvf"

[gvf]

What's good 9mm ammo for that caliber Luger. I read it should be between 115gr and 124gr. But I've also read you need something stronger than usual.

It's FMJ I know; what shape bullet is best? Round nose?

Thanks, wanna get that right before I shoot it.

Also, I've read Lugers are not the most reliable shooters/ That true?

[SteveM]

Anyone else notice that the witness mark doesn't exactly line up?
Nice one, BTW.

[DavidJayUden]

What's good 9mm ammo for that caliber Luger. I read it should be between 115gr and 124gr. But I've also read you need something stronger than usual.
It's FMJ I know; what shape bullet is best? Round nose?
Thanks, wanna get that right before I shoot it.
Also, I've read Lugers are not the most reliable shooters/ That true?

Don't go Plus P or NATO, just Winchester white box or even Sellier and Beloit. Round nose FMJ is fine. The hyper velocity stuff is hard on the old girls...
They may not be as smooth functioning as Glocks, etc, but set up correctly with good mags and ammo Lugers can be quite reliable and WAY more fun to shoot. But it sometimes takes some experimenting to get there.
dju

[Dwight Gruber]

Originally Posted by SteveM

Anyone else notice that the witness mark doesn't exactly line up?

Alphabet Commercials always came from the factory in 7.65mm/.30 Luger cal. They were rebarreled in 9mm for police use. This affects the witness mark.

--Dwight

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by gvf

I live in Erie County and have never heard of anything but physically going the Permit Office after filling out transfer forms at FFL and that's where you pay for the FFL service, whatever it may be.

I'm in Niagara County and our process is exactly like Dave describes here -

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

...you'd need to pay for the gun to get a receipt, register it and add it to the permit--which is what generates a purchase coupon, then return to the dealer to turn in the coupon and have the background check, after which it is transferred to you....

...And only then can you take it home. If bought out of state and shipped to your FFL receiver, no state/county sales tax [8%].

We pay the FFL receiver for the FFL transfer & NICS check, not the permit clerk. Registration is $3.00 per visit (any number of additions/subtractions). We just changed over to the plastic wallet-sized permit cards. And they keep changing them (thumbprint, no thumbprint; full page, bordered; etc).

Is Dianne Arnett still the Erie County Pistol Permit Clerk??? Or one of the clerks???

[gvf]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

I'm in Niagara County and our process is exactly like Dave describes here -



...And only then can you take it home. If bought out of state and shipped to your FFL receiver, no state/county sales tax [8%].

We pay the FFL receiver for the FFL transfer & NICS check, not the permit clerk. Registration is $3.00 per visit (any number of additions/subtractions). We just changed over to the plastic wallet-sized permit cards. And they keep changing them (thumbprint, no thumbprint; full page, bordered; etc).

Is Dianne Arnett still the Erie County Pistol Permit Clerk??? Or one of the clerks???

I've never seen her unless she's at a desk. They're used to be a real nice guy who seemed in charge, African American older man, couldn't be nicer. I find all those who work in the Permit Office are very friendly and helpful. Yes we pay the Permit Office the same for paperwork. We just have the plastic card with photo and profession, no prints, and any County restrictions that are put on it. Mine is "Unrestricted".

For those not familiar with NY State Permits, the State Permit is for Carry, but counties are given leeway to put restrictions on permits, like "Target and Hunting Only". They are county ordinances not state gun law. Some counties use them, some don't, and some, like mine, after a year of a restriction are pretty willing to take that off and the Permit becomes Unrestricted.

[gvf]

To all, my next task is to learn my new digital camera well enough to take and post some photos.

--------------------------------------------
The only boo-boo I see on the gun to date is small chip upper left of one grip, makes that grip move slightly when you grip the gun, about 1/8th" back and forth. I cleaned the grips but they are pretty dark wood anyway. The wood is as dry as a desert. I'll put some conditioner on them.

The parts I can see, on top of the Seller's photos of various parts, all show the same number. The mag though has no number. So I don't know if it's original but I have a sense it is, same condition as the rest of the gun and if all the other parts match it's an indication the mag does as well. It's steel "color" with wood insert at bottom including the "circle of wood".

There's a good bit of finish left. Based on that I'd say the gun was not shot a lot. I still need to take it down and clean/lube. It looks pretty good in there, almost like it was cleaned and lubed recently - or just not worn much.

[gvf]

Originally Posted by Dwight Gruber

Alphabet Commercials always came from the factory in 7.65mm/.30 Luger cal. They were rebarreled in 9mm for police use. This affects the witness mark.

--Dwight

So, is that true of mine? Do you know who the manufacturer could have been. I've yet to find the gun's S/N listed anywhere, though I believe a poster in another web forum has a "Blank Toggle" and has run across my serial somewhere. I wrote him but no response as yet.

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by gvf

So, is that true of mine? Do you know who the manufacturer could have been. I've yet to find the gun's S/N listed anywhere, though I believe a poster in another web forum has a "Blank Toggle" and has run across my serial somewhere. I wrote him but no response as yet.

I do believe I answered this on the other forum, well actually it was earlier in this thread , but will try again.

The manufacturer would have been DWM or as it has been pointed out at that time it was BKIW.

Your serial number is in the range that DWM produced, don't expect to find the individual number listed . If someone listed all the numbers there would be thousands.

The numbers ran from 1 to 9999 and then 1 to 9999 with an "a" under it, then 1 to 9999 with a "b" under, etc. the letters went all the way to "v" , IIRC.

So there are a 'bunch' of alphabet commercial P 08s out there,
some with original 7.65mm barrels and others re-barreled to 9mm P, and later ones made a 9mm P. I believe your pistol in the "u" block was made originally as a 9 mm.

Your pistol 4685 u is now called called a '29 commercial, being made in about 1929. It was made in 9mm P according to most sources. They were formerly called "Sneaks" as many or most have a blank chamber and blank middle toggle.
The pistol was sold via the Weimar army or directly to the Weimar police, who added the sear and iit became identifiable as a police pistol.

I have pistol 4506 u. In Mr. Grubers book, Police Lugers, a close pistol number 4583 u is listed in the observed '29 commercials.
It has markings similar to yours and is also marked to the Schupo of Merseburg, see page 133 in Police Lugers by Tinker and Gruber.

I do hope now you can stop searching for a "listing" of your number, as I said Mr. Gruber will likely add your number to his list and if published again in may in fact make a list!

[Dwight Gruber]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight Gruber View Post
Alphabet Commercials always came from the factory in 7.65mm/.30 Luger cal. They were rebarreled in 9mm for police use. This affects the witness mark.

--Dwight

Originally Posted by gvf

So, is that true of mine?

Your Luger is a police pistol in 9mm, so, yes.

--Dwight

[Don M]

Originally Posted by Dwight Gruber

Alphabet Commercials always came from the factory in 7.65mm/.30 Luger cal. They were rebarreled in 9mm for police use. This affects the witness mark.

Dwight, my observations suggest that at least some of those manufactured for the police in 1928-29, after the departure of the IMKK, were originally manufactured with 9-mm barrels. Many of these show absolutely no signs of re-barreling. Apparently, DWM began ignoring the restrictions once there was no enforcement.

[gvf]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

I do believe I answered this on the other forum, well actually it was earlier in this thread , but will try again.

The manufacturer would have been DWM or as it has been pointed out at that time it was BKIW.

Your serial number is in the range that DWM produced, don't expect to find the individual number listed . If someone listed all the numbers there would be thousands.

The numbers ran from 1 to 9999 and then 1 to 9999 with an "a" under it, then 1 to 9999 with a "b" under, etc. the letters went all the way to "v" , IIRC.

So there are a 'bunch' of alphabet commercial P 08s out there,
some with original 7.65mm barrels and others re-barreled to 9mm P, and later ones made a 9mm P. I believe your pistol in the "u" block was made originally as a 9 mm.

Your pistol 4685 u is now called called a '29 commercial, being made in about 1929. It was made in 9mm P according to most sources. They were formerly called "Sneaks" as many or most have a blank chamber and blank middle toggle.
The pistol was sold via the Weimar army or directly to the Weimar police, who added the sear and iit became identifiable as a police pistol.

I have pistol 4506 u. In Mr. Grubers book, Police Lugers, a close pistol number 4583 u is listed in the observed '29 commercials.
It has markings similar to yours and is also marked to the Schupo of Merseburg, see page 133 in Police Lugers by Tinker and Gruber.

I do hope now you can stop searching for a "listing" of your number, as I said Mr. Gruber will likely add your number to his list and if published again in may in fact make a list!

Somehow I missed this post and am most grateful I recovered it!
Thank you very much!

[Dwight Gruber]

Originally Posted by Don M

Dwight, my observations suggest that at least some of those manufactured for the police in 1928-29, after the departure of the IMKK, were originally manufactured with 9-mm barrels. Many of these show absolutely no signs of re-barreling. Apparently, DWM began ignoring the restrictions once there was no enforcement.

Don,

I don't think we are going to come to an agreement about this one.

--Dwight

[gvf]

Here is an interesting page on the 1929 Police Lugers from Luger Gun-boards. You may already know it. It deals with
1929 "u" suffix Ländjagerei P.08's. [sic]. I think of some of you posted on it. Keep in mind the thread refers to specific examples of this group of guns.

The photos attached I can't view. Has to do with Gun-boards screwing up my registration, an attempt made some weeks past.

A good point is raised, in 1929 Hitler was not yet in power and the poster who brought this up stated that the "Sneaks" started with the "g" Lugers. I know zip about "g" Lugers. Of course the then German Gov't could have started some rearmament themselves with Nazi influence which in '29 was a gathering force, and more so after the Depression began.

Here be the link:

http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...agerei-P-08-s&

[Tom Nowling]

Originally Posted by gvf

I've never seen her unless she's at a desk. They're used to be a real nice guy who seemed in charge, African American older man, couldn't be nicer. I find all those who work in the Permit Office are very friendly and helpful. Yes we pay the Permit Office the same for paperwork. We just have the plastic card with photo and profession, no prints, and any County restrictions that are put on it. Mine is "Unrestricted".

For those not familiar with NY State Permits, the State Permit is for Carry, but counties are given leeway to put restrictions on permits, like "Target and Hunting Only". They are county ordinances not state gun law. Some counties use them, some don't, and some, like mine, after a year of a restriction are pretty willing to take that off and the Permit becomes Unrestricted.

Wow..I cannot believe the hoops you guys have to jump through! So glad I live in Fla!!

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Tom Nowling

Wow..I cannot believe the hoops you guys have to jump through! So glad I live in Fla!!

They keep changing the permits themselves. I attached a scan of the old permit with attached purchase coupon (new permit underneath). Up until a few years ago, this was what you carried. Too big for your wallet, and if you folded it and it wore in half, it was not considered legal. Now we have a plastic wallet sized card. It has a color photo, and until recently had your thumbprint. They eliminated the thumbprint.

They also eliminated your keeping a purchase coupon to carry for a future purchase. Now the couplon is issued to you only after producing a receipt from the seller [or FFL receiver] and must be given to the seller before you can receive the handgun [and after the NICS check].

In the past, you were also encouraged to have your spouse get a permit and have all your handguns put on it. The police will receive notice of your death and be on your doorstep within 2 days to confiscate your handguns. Now, the spouse can no longer have your handguns on their permit. Or receive them after your death. Transfer has to be through an FFL holder with a NICS chack.

You could also get additional purchase coupons to take to a dealer or gun show. I still have several old coupons - no longer allowed.

New York State: If there's not enough criminals, the State will manufacture them.

/rant

[Don M]

Originally Posted by Dwight Gruber

I don't think we are going to come to an agreement about this one.

Dwight, this wouldn't be as much fun if we agreed on everything. I've learned so much as a result of our "discussionments."

Originally Posted by gvf

A good point is raised, in 1929 Hitler was not yet in power and the poster who brought this up stated that the "Sneaks" started with the "g" Lugers. I know zip about "g" Lugers.

Since the Alphabet DWMs began with the suffix "i", I question this poster's knowledge of the subject.