Cast bullets for 7.65 Parabellum

RAY1946 · 01-05-2012, 01:33 PM

One of these days in the near future I will be the owner of a Mauser Parabellum in 30 Luger caliber. I have seen two bullets that look real good to me; the Lee 93gr. and 100gr. .311 bullets. Does anyone have any experience with these bullets? I have seen a couple of the Lyman bullets that also look good, but I can't seem to find them.
I haven't cast anything in over 25 years, but am looking forward to getting back into it. Am I correct in thinking the Interarms Mauser Parabellums have about a .311 groove diameter? Thanks to everyone, this is a great site!...............

rhuff · 01-05-2012, 04:06 PM

I am loading a 93gr LRN cast bullet .309 diameter from a Lyman mold. They are working well so far, and I am pleased. I purchase them from Western Bullet Co. in Montana. They are nice folks to deal with. He lists them as 30 Luger bullets.

I have no experience with the Lee molds/bullets, nor do I know the groove diameter of the Post War Mauser. I would slug that barrel before I loaded .311 bullets into the chamber....if they will even fit into the "new Luger chamber". My 30 Luger pistol is a 1921 Commerical Luger. I was loading the 86gr FMJ from Hornady and Sierra before I decided to try these LRN bullets. The cost is less with the lead, of course, and the performance appears to be good. Keep us informed.

RAY1946 · 01-05-2012, 07:49 PM

Thanks so much for the input. I probably won't be recieving the gun until Monday or Tuesday, but the first order of business will be slugging the barrel. I have looked thru several of my manuals and found a fair amount of data in 3 of the Lyman manuals. The only thing is, some of the propellents are no longer being made, so I will be updating with some new manuels.......................

rhuff · 01-06-2012, 04:04 PM

Data on reloading the 30 Luger cartridge is few and far between. This forum has some, but I question some of the load data (amount of powder charge) stated here. I have a few old(1970s) reloading manuals, and they list factory duplication loads for the 93gr LRN, and 93gr FMJ, along with a bit more info on the 85-86gr JSP and FMJ. If I can help in any way, just ask. People that reload for, and shoot 30 Luger ammo are a small group. We have to stick together....LOL

RAY1946 · 01-06-2012, 11:48 PM

Thanks much for your input! I am interested in tryuing to develope cast bullet loads for the 7.65 and 9mm. I won't be getting my 7.65 until Monday or tuesday, so have to wait to do the checking until then. I found some old semi wad-cutters in the basement(.314 dia. to slug the bore with).

Really looking forward to some load developement for the 7.65L. My Starline brass shoud be getting here in the next few, so everythings a go for now..........................

RAY1946 · 01-07-2012, 05:30 PM

I have about 450lbs of the same alloy. About 25 years ago I took 200lbs of Lynotype, 200 lbs of wheel-weights and 50+ lbs of pure lead to a guy about 75 miles from here who had a printers Kiln. His furnace would melt up to 700lbs at a time. So, I have a small quantity of the same alloy. I was going to "save" this stuff and only use it for cast bullets in rifles.

Seeing that the 9mm and the 7.65mm both have projectiles that are fairly light compared to other handgun calibers, I have decided to use this alloy. I don't know for sure, but I am thinking this is somewhere around 17-18 Brinnell, whjich should make a good hard pistol bullet.

My Luger is a 9mm Mauser Parabellum with a 6" barrel. I have been trying to make some measurements from the barrel and have come up with fact that I may not be able to load anything larger that a .357 bullet. I found this out by measuring with an aluminum rod from the end of the barrel down to the bolt-face, recording that measurement,then placing a .357 diameter semi-wadcutter base-first into the chamber and pushing it into the lead slowly until it stops.

The difference between these two lengths is .808 which means the first driving band of the bullet would only be .058-.060 past the end of the case. What this means is that if I size my new Lyman 356402 I just bougfht to .3572(the diameter of the inverted semi-wadcutter) the maximum overall length I will able to attain is 1.146 and thats actually sitting on the lands! Since every cast bullet I have ever loaded has shot best with about .005 jump, the overall length would be 1.140-1.141.

The actual "lead" in this barrel is extremely SHALLOW. As you view from the rear, it appears that the lands have a slight tapered cut and no metal at all has been removed from the actual grooves. This presents a situation where it might be difficult to load a cast bullet out to the max overall length which seems be so conducive to proper functioning; 1.169.

I have 2 Walther P1's and they both have a long slow-tapering lead which to me is very similar to the 7.9mm 98K Mauser. Sometimes though, you just have to work with what you have..............................

RAY1946 · 01-10-2012, 07:40 AM

Sorry about the tangent on the 9mm. The 7.65 should get here today. If the lead on the 7.65 is like the one on the 9, I may put together a rig to polish them.

I picked up a Lee 3-die set at the gun show for 7.65 and it had some data for 85 thru 100 gr. bullets. Looks like to me that AA#7 may be the way to go. I am thinking a slower powder as the AA#7 would have a much cooler burn temperature and thus be much friendlier to plane-based cast bullets. There was data for Accurate 2,5, and7, also data for Win 231 and Vitavouri n-340.

What lube are you using for your cast bullets? In the past I have used Alox 50-50 and a few others of the day. I recently got some Lyman Orange Magic, which I had read on several sites was good stuff. The only draw-back is you need a lube heater. I have used a hot-air gun in the past and this works very well, I suppose a hair dryer may work well also.

As both of these pistols have 6" barrels I am looking forward to getting a clean burn from even the slower powders. How long is the barrel on your pistol? Have you chronographed any of your loads? I have had excellent luck with the Lee molds as far as wear. I made over 3 thousand 180gr. bullets for my Schmidt-Rubin when I was shootin high-power back in the 80's and it is still in great condition...........................

01-05-2012, 01:33 PM	#1
RAY1946 User Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 77 Thanks: 178 Thanked 14 Times in 9 Posts	Cast bullets for 7.65 Parabellum One of these days in the near future I will be the owner of a Mauser Parabellum in 30 Luger caliber. I have seen two bullets that look real good to me; the Lee 93gr. and 100gr. .311 bullets. Does anyone have any experience with these bullets? I have seen a couple of the Lyman bullets that also look good, but I can't seem to find them. I haven't cast anything in over 25 years, but am looking forward to getting back into it. Am I correct in thinking the Interarms Mauser Parabellums have about a .311 groove diameter? Thanks to everyone, this is a great site!...............

01-05-2012, 04:06 PM	#2
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,270 Thanks: 2,686 Thanked 958 Times in 704 Posts	I am loading a 93gr LRN cast bullet .309 diameter from a Lyman mold. They are working well so far, and I am pleased. I purchase them from Western Bullet Co. in Montana. They are nice folks to deal with. He lists them as 30 Luger bullets. I have no experience with the Lee molds/bullets, nor do I know the groove diameter of the Post War Mauser. I would slug that barrel before I loaded .311 bullets into the chamber....if they will even fit into the "new Luger chamber". My 30 Luger pistol is a 1921 Commerical Luger. I was loading the 86gr FMJ from Hornady and Sierra before I decided to try these LRN bullets. The cost is less with the lead, of course, and the performance appears to be good. Keep us informed.

01-05-2012, 07:49 PM	#3
RAY1946 User Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 77 Thanks: 178 Thanked 14 Times in 9 Posts	Thanks so much for the input. I probably won't be recieving the gun until Monday or Tuesday, but the first order of business will be slugging the barrel. I have looked thru several of my manuals and found a fair amount of data in 3 of the Lyman manuals. The only thing is, some of the propellents are no longer being made, so I will be updating with some new manuels.......................

01-06-2012, 04:04 PM	#4
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,270 Thanks: 2,686 Thanked 958 Times in 704 Posts	Data on reloading the 30 Luger cartridge is few and far between. This forum has some, but I question some of the load data (amount of powder charge) stated here. I have a few old(1970s) reloading manuals, and they list factory duplication loads for the 93gr LRN, and 93gr FMJ, along with a bit more info on the 85-86gr JSP and FMJ. If I can help in any way, just ask. People that reload for, and shoot 30 Luger ammo are a small group. We have to stick together....LOL

01-06-2012, 11:48 PM	#5
RAY1946 User Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 77 Thanks: 178 Thanked 14 Times in 9 Posts	Thanks much for your input! I am interested in tryuing to develope cast bullet loads for the 7.65 and 9mm. I won't be getting my 7.65 until Monday or tuesday, so have to wait to do the checking until then. I found some old semi wad-cutters in the basement(.314 dia. to slug the bore with). Really looking forward to some load developement for the 7.65L. My Starline brass shoud be getting here in the next few, so everythings a go for now..........................

01-07-2012, 05:30 PM	#6
RAY1946 User Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 77 Thanks: 178 Thanked 14 Times in 9 Posts	I have about 450lbs of the same alloy. About 25 years ago I took 200lbs of Lynotype, 200 lbs of wheel-weights and 50+ lbs of pure lead to a guy about 75 miles from here who had a printers Kiln. His furnace would melt up to 700lbs at a time. So, I have a small quantity of the same alloy. I was going to "save" this stuff and only use it for cast bullets in rifles. Seeing that the 9mm and the 7.65mm both have projectiles that are fairly light compared to other handgun calibers, I have decided to use this alloy. I don't know for sure, but I am thinking this is somewhere around 17-18 Brinnell, whjich should make a good hard pistol bullet. My Luger is a 9mm Mauser Parabellum with a 6" barrel. I have been trying to make some measurements from the barrel and have come up with fact that I may not be able to load anything larger that a .357 bullet. I found this out by measuring with an aluminum rod from the end of the barrel down to the bolt-face, recording that measurement,then placing a .357 diameter semi-wadcutter base-first into the chamber and pushing it into the lead slowly until it stops. The difference between these two lengths is .808 which means the first driving band of the bullet would only be .058-.060 past the end of the case. What this means is that if I size my new Lyman 356402 I just bougfht to .3572(the diameter of the inverted semi-wadcutter) the maximum overall length I will able to attain is 1.146 and thats actually sitting on the lands! Since every cast bullet I have ever loaded has shot best with about .005 jump, the overall length would be 1.140-1.141. The actual "lead" in this barrel is extremely SHALLOW. As you view from the rear, it appears that the lands have a slight tapered cut and no metal at all has been removed from the actual grooves. This presents a situation where it might be difficult to load a cast bullet out to the max overall length which seems be so conducive to proper functioning; 1.169. I have 2 Walther P1's and they both have a long slow-tapering lead which to me is very similar to the 7.9mm 98K Mauser. Sometimes though, you just have to work with what you have..............................

01-10-2012, 07:40 AM	#7
RAY1946 User Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 77 Thanks: 178 Thanked 14 Times in 9 Posts	Sorry about the tangent on the 9mm. The 7.65 should get here today. If the lead on the 7.65 is like the one on the 9, I may put together a rig to polish them. I picked up a Lee 3-die set at the gun show for 7.65 and it had some data for 85 thru 100 gr. bullets. Looks like to me that AA#7 may be the way to go. I am thinking a slower powder as the AA#7 would have a much cooler burn temperature and thus be much friendlier to plane-based cast bullets. There was data for Accurate 2,5, and7, also data for Win 231 and Vitavouri n-340. What lube are you using for your cast bullets? In the past I have used Alox 50-50 and a few others of the day. I recently got some Lyman Orange Magic, which I had read on several sites was good stuff. The only draw-back is you need a lube heater. I have used a hot-air gun in the past and this works very well, I suppose a hair dryer may work well also. As both of these pistols have 6" barrels I am looking forward to getting a clean burn from even the slower powders. How long is the barrel on your pistol? Have you chronographed any of your loads? I have had excellent luck with the Lee molds as far as wear. I made over 3 thousand 180gr. bullets for my Schmidt-Rubin when I was shootin high-power back in the 80's and it is still in great condition...........................