g date banner??

lugercollector · 09-16-2002, 12:55 PM

I am in the process of buying a collection that includes a g date with mauser banner toggle...all matching including mag serial#9382(L suffix I believe,the seller can't decipher the letter)....he bought the gun in Germany in 1962.....anyone know why a g date would have a banner toggle....late war parts gun perhaps????any feedback would be good...thanks...Peter...

Johnny Peppers · 09-16-2002, 01:56 PM

I am afraid that your G Date Banner has problems all the way around unless the seller is misreading the letter suffix. The G Dates are found in the a thru f letter suffix blocks. Check the right side of the receiver for military acceptance marks, or the left side of the receiver for the commercial proof which would be a Crown/U. Also check the left side of the breechblock for either a Crown/U or Eagle/N proof. The receiver and breechblock should have the same proofs. Mauser started commercial production right where the DWM production left off. The last of the DWM pistols were in the u letter suffix block, and Mauser started in the v letter suffix block. To the best of my knowledge almost all the Mauser Banners/Commercials were serial numbered in the v thru x letter suffix block.
MauserLugers should be able to expand upon or correct anything I have wrong or have left out.

Aaron · 09-16-2002, 05:38 PM

Logic dictates that a Luger having the wrong toggle which is properly numbered to the gun can only come about in one of two ways. The first is an armorer's rebuild which was probably done during wartime. The second is a Russian postwar rebuild. If a wartime repair, the barrel will show some wear. If a Russian rebuild, the barrel will appear unfired, and the gun has a dip blue. You will undoubtedly notice that the numerals on the toggle (and on the new barrel if Russian) do not match the size and style of the numerals elsewhere on the pistol in both cases, this being the result of a forced match. According to the experts, there is a third way this situation can come about by the use of out-of-sequence parts during original assembly. I highly doubt that such a thing ever happened, and especially not in your case with such diverse parts.

lugercollector · 09-16-2002, 10:51 PM

Thanks for the info gentlemen....once I get the gun I shall post pictures...

MauserLugers · 09-17-2002, 12:57 PM

Hi,
Based on the information that you have given, I am speculating that this is not a correct variation. I presume that you have an original G-date receiver in the "E" block and that the acceptance marks on the right receiver are E/63 E/63. The length of barrel and caliber is of great importance here. If it has a 4 inch barrel with typical G-date proofing, then this gun was not originally assembled with the Banner Toggle. You really need to give us more information, like barrel length and caliber and acceptance marks. Gut feeling is that it was assembled from parts post war. Good collecting!

09-16-2002, 12:55 PM	#1
lugercollector Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: canada Posts: 322 Thanks: 0 Thanked 25 Times in 15 Posts	g date banner?? I am in the process of buying a collection that includes a g date with mauser banner toggle...all matching including mag serial#9382(L suffix I believe,the seller can't decipher the letter)....he bought the gun in Germany in 1962.....anyone know why a g date would have a banner toggle....late war parts gun perhaps????any feedback would be good...thanks...Peter...

09-16-2002, 01:56 PM	#2
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I am afraid that your G Date Banner has problems all the way around unless the seller is misreading the letter suffix. The G Dates are found in the a thru f letter suffix blocks. Check the right side of the receiver for military acceptance marks, or the left side of the receiver for the commercial proof which would be a Crown/U. Also check the left side of the breechblock for either a Crown/U or Eagle/N proof. The receiver and breechblock should have the same proofs. Mauser started commercial production right where the DWM production left off. The last of the DWM pistols were in the u letter suffix block, and Mauser started in the v letter suffix block. To the best of my knowledge almost all the Mauser Banners/Commercials were serial numbered in the v thru x letter suffix block. MauserLugers should be able to expand upon or correct anything I have wrong or have left out.

09-16-2002, 05:38 PM	#3
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	Logic dictates that a Luger having the wrong toggle which is properly numbered to the gun can only come about in one of two ways. The first is an armorer's rebuild which was probably done during wartime. The second is a Russian postwar rebuild. If a wartime repair, the barrel will show some wear. If a Russian rebuild, the barrel will appear unfired, and the gun has a dip blue. You will undoubtedly notice that the numerals on the toggle (and on the new barrel if Russian) do not match the size and style of the numerals elsewhere on the pistol in both cases, this being the result of a forced match. According to the experts, there is a third way this situation can come about by the use of out-of-sequence parts during original assembly. I highly doubt that such a thing ever happened, and especially not in your case with such diverse parts.

09-16-2002, 10:51 PM	#4
lugercollector Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: canada Posts: 322 Thanks: 0 Thanked 25 Times in 15 Posts	Thanks for the info gentlemen....once I get the gun I shall post pictures...

09-17-2002, 12:57 PM	#5
MauserLugers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Philipsburg, Montana 59858 Posts: 250 Thanks: 0 Thanked 8 Times in 1 Post	Hi, Based on the information that you have given, I am speculating that this is not a correct variation. I presume that you have an original G-date receiver in the "E" block and that the acceptance marks on the right receiver are E/63 E/63. The length of barrel and caliber is of great importance here. If it has a 4 inch barrel with typical G-date proofing, then this gun was not originally assembled with the Banner Toggle. You really need to give us more information, like barrel length and caliber and acceptance marks. Gut feeling is that it was assembled from parts post war. Good collecting!