Pawn Shop Find: question

[BILL G]

I went back to the pawn shop here in Dallas to take another look at that Luger pistol...and as I am not familar with Lugers...this happened:


I pulled back on the slide to lock the slide/hammer as I wanted to look into breach, as it had the mag in it...but it would not lock into place. Is this normal?


also the C-96 broomhandle they have is in 9mm...is that rare?


Bill G

Dallas

[Jerry G.]

Hi. With the empty magazine in place, the bolt SHOULD lock back when you pull the toggle. Could just be a bent magazine, could be more... There were quite a large number of Broomies made in 9mm... Especially all the Chinese pistols.. Jerry

[Kyrie]

Hi Bill,


Some Lugers lacked the hold open, so it could be functioning as it should - we need more info to be able to tell one way or the other.


Mauser produced C96â??s originally chambered for the 9x19 Luger cartridge are uncommon. But many (if not most) of the clapped out Mauser C96â??s imported from China were converted to 9 mm Luger by people of varying levels of skill. Approach this one with caution.


Best regards,


Kyrie

[Johnny Peppers]

Not all 1913 Erfurts had the hold-open installed originally. If they went back to an arsenal for any reason they were to be added. You will have to remove the barrel/receiver assembly to determine if your Erfurt has the hold-open.

[BILL G]

No, I am sure it has not...as I tried several times..and the pawn shop owner did.....he was worried that he got sold a pistol that is broken and cannot be fixed.....as he was getting a little embarssed about it not locking back into place....I tried it without the mag..and it wouldnt lock back....

I did look inside the breach...and I didn't see anything like a "hold lock".....and I took the mag out and looked at it...also noithing to show that it could hold the slide back....another Luger person on this site who lives here...and looked at the same pistol told me that the mag is a German police issue..something rare, as it has the nazi eagle on it..could this be the problem?


Bill

Dallas

[Johnny Peppers]

As indicated in my previous post, you will have to remove the barrel/receiver assembly to determine if you Erfurt has a hold-open. The magazine itself does not lock the toggle assembly back. It only actuates the hole-open, and if the hold-open is working properly it will not work with the magazine removed. There is no difference in an Army or Police magazine as far as function.

Also, just because the pistol has a hold-open is no guarantee that it is working properly.

[BILL G]

Ok, so your saying that the pistol could fire just fine without this "hold open"?


The history of the pistol is that a Dallas Luger collector came by the store back in April of this year with 5 lugers and one C-96...all that is left now,is the one 1913 and the C-96....which is pure Mauser, as it has Obebdorft printed on the right side, near the hammer...not a Chinese, but is 9mm....the former owner had the pistols for 30 years....and needed the money as the ecomny took a big hit back in April... and the guns have been sitting there ever since....so, thanks for any help that you can give me.


Bill

Dallas

[Johnny Peppers]

The hold-open device has nothing to do with the safe firing or function of the pistol. Erfurt did not add the hold-open until mid 1913 and DWM did not use it until late 1912 or early 1913. The hold-open locks the breech assembly back after the last shot is fired, and while this is nice it is not essential.

[Big Norm]

Your Erfurt 1913 is supposed to have a hold open. Take the mag out. Remove the receiver assembly from the gun. Watch inside where the bullets come up from the magazine. There is a reversed "L" shaped piece on metal there. Take the magazine in and out of the grip and you will see it move. If you don't see the "L" shaped piece of metal and there appears to be a blank spot there then its missing. Other wise you should detect some movement. If the hold open is there but not moving then the leaf spring is probably broken. If the hold open is there, then lift it up gently and slid it toward the rear of the gun and it will slide out fairly easily. Then inspect it for damage or wear.

Big Norm

[Johnny Peppers]

All military Lugers without the hold-open were to have the device added, but Erfurt did not add the hold-open to new production until mid 1913 and not all had the device added later. There are 1913 dated Erfurts out there with no hold-open.

[Big Norm]

Johnny,


your right, but not totally. I looked at my 1912 Erfurt before I thought much about it and it has a hold open numbered to the gun. I also just sold a 1911 DWM that also had a hold open. So, not all pre 1913's are absent a hold open as you suggest, but don't say.


But otherwise, my instructions still hold open. I covered myself by telling him to look for the reversed "L" and to insert and reinsert the magazine to see if there was movement thus indicating whether or not there was a hold open. After all, Big G's original question was a practical one about how he could tell if his Luger had a hold open. Is was not about some trivialities of history about when the hold open was offically added to the military specifications. Big G sounded like a new Luger owner and I thought that simpler language to a specific question would be more helpful.

Big Norm

John,


DWM used the hold-open as early as the model 1900, the Borchardt did not have a hold-open, and 1898 Luger I have no idea. Anyone know the hold-open status of the 1898?


Ciao,


Bill S.

were original built without a hold open device by both DWM and Erfurt. Most were later updated by adding the holdopen and will have a very small crown/P on the right side of the frame, just below a hold that was drilled to add the pin that holds in the holdopen. If this was done after 1915, the tigger bar (sear) will also be shorten, so that the toggle can be opened with the safety applied. Tom h

[Johnny Peppers]

Very good information. The presence of the small pin tells with absolute certainty that the hold-open was added at some later date.

[Johnny Peppers]

Bill,

The earliest DWM that I own is serial number 5652 which does have the hold-open, and I should have qualified my statement by adding "military" as the discussion started with a military Erfurt.

my erfurt 1918 has the hand-shortened trigger-bar. and it doesn't stay open after its last shot. my magazine-spring is not strong enough. test an other mag with a stronger spring.