Pics of that Matched '29 DWM Police Rig

Bob in OH · 06-12-2004, 08:42 PM

Well guys, I took the plunge and snagged that all matching rig that I had inquired about below. While the gun was pricey, I just had to have it. I may have bought it too soon, but in a few years I figure value will improve. Again, the mags, holster, grip strap, and tool are all marked "L.E. 136.". No date on the toggle but made(?) in 1929 in the t-block.

I'm not too concerned about it's value now but rather interested in comment on condition, history, or desirability. Thanks for the comments in advance...Bob

policeluger · 06-12-2004, 09:25 PM

WOW...what a beauty...turning a bit green here!!!

Thor · 06-12-2004, 09:27 PM

Aint that adorable! I love it! Thanks for posting those awesome photos!

Edward Tinker · 06-12-2004, 09:42 PM

Looks like you did alright to me!

Very nice, honest wear, halos, looks nice!

And a real luger, a Weimar Police Rig!

Any other stamps on it, such as this one?

Ed

PS: <blockquote>quote:<hr />..interested in comment on condition, history, or desirability.<hr /></blockquote>Commented on condition, history, we can try to research it, desirability... Yes, please mail it to me in Colorado

Bob in OH · 06-12-2004, 09:49 PM

Here's few more pics that didn't "fit" on the post above [8 pics max]....Thanks again for the thumbs up!! Only other obvious markings are Crown/N in several locations and WaA66.

Steinar · 06-13-2004, 10:24 AM

Realy nice Luger!

What is that small cut above the grip on both sides??

Thor · 06-13-2004, 10:29 AM

Cut is for the magazine safety that has been removed.

Vlim · 06-13-2004, 10:29 AM

Hi,

That cut was for the installation of a magazine safety, preventing trigger action with the magazine removed.

These were later clipped or removed and are totally correct for this police luger.

Dwight Gruber · 06-13-2004, 01:17 PM

Bob,

That is a very gorgeous rig.

Looking at it critically for a moment, the bottoms of the magazines seem very unusual. they are an odd combination of Police and Imperial markings. Imperial magazines used the + to designate the spare magazine in a set; Police forces marked their magazines 1 and 2. An Imperial magazine base would include the serial number suffix. Also, to the best of my knowledge it was not the practice to stamp the Police weapon number on the mag base.

Many Police Lugerw were originally manufactured in .30 cal., then rebarrelled to 9mm in a Police armory. What we can see of the marks under your barrel intrigue me, is there any chance you could photograph all the markngs there, including the witness mark?

Its interesting to see that this gun has the E/WaW66 acceptance stamp. Its hard to tell from your pictures, is that a c/N proof on the left receiver?

--Dwight

Bob in OH · 06-13-2004, 04:02 PM

Hi Dwight-

I DO want the whole "history" of this piece so if there are any issues or enigmas...do tell. Here are a few more pics of the mag base and the witness mark. The font on the "6" in the unit and serial number appear identical. The second mag is shown in both mag base pics.

As I very closely examine the witness mark they do NOT appear to exactly align. Also the alpha "t" on the barrel is more crude than the frame. Indeed, crown/N on the barrel and LS of the receiver.

What do you make of all this?? Thanks...Bob

Edward Tinker · 06-13-2004, 04:13 PM

The police magazines I have seen are generally only marked with the 1,2 or 3, and the serial number, but I do have this magazine;

So, unit weapon marking did occur, I am unsure of the time period or for whom, but would gladly accept submissions to me and I will collate them for everyone.

Ed

Dwight Gruber · 06-13-2004, 06:49 PM

Bob,

Thanks for the additional photos, particularly satisfying my interests with the witness mark.

The witness mark on this pistol is not a concern, one would expect it to look like this on a rebarrel. The barrel suffix is certainly interesting, I wonder if there are other examples?

--Dwight

John Sabato · 06-14-2004, 09:57 AM

A wonderful keeper Bob... congrats on what looks like a righteous Luger! Thanks for the great photos.

SteveM · 06-14-2004, 09:05 PM

Bob,
Glad to see that you picked up the Sneak. Very nice rig..

SteveM

Dwight Gruber · 06-15-2004, 12:04 AM

Bob,

Send me your email address.

--Dwight
mailto:dwightg@pacifier.comdwightg@pacifier.com</a>

RockinWR · 06-15-2004, 08:41 PM

Bob,
* Exceptional find of a very, very nice matching & complete Weimar "29 DWM" Police rig.
* As posted previously, L.E.136 indicates issue to the Landjaegerei(rural constabulary) in the Erfurt district, inventory #136 per (at least) Instruction #40a for the Prussian Police, Berlin, 1932. These instructions were introduced in Feb. 25, 1932 and likely account for the grip strap markings on "t" & "u" examples found.
* Trust you have Jan Still's, Weimar Luger & Early Nazi Lugers. This Vol. V, Pgs. 31-34 and associated pictures, adds documented detail to this variation from the research of Joe Wotka...a noted Police Luger researcher/expert. Essentially, by Prussian documents, Joe/Jan have gleaned "9000 officers & men were rearmed/trained in 1929."
* BKIW produced these weapons during 1929 & early 1930. New holsters were made to support this effort and were made in 1929 as your example amply supports.
* Not uncommon for the Police matching mags to bear the larger S/N numerals. While not commonly seen, the inventory number on the mag was likely a result of an inconsistent interpretation of the 1922 marking instructions which called for the "weapon" number to be present on Police pistols. Some Police armourers interpreted this to mean only the factory's S/N on the mag., some went with the inventory number on the plug too, & some covered the landscape by marking the full unit on the spine of the mag.
* Also of interest is the Dec., 4, 1928 ARMY directive stating when the supply of wood base mags is depleted aluminum base mags would be used thereafter. This likely was followed by the Police as well per Weimar Lugers, Pg. 33.
* Trust this helps your search for info.
Respectfully,
Bob

Bob in OH · 06-16-2004, 07:24 AM

Thanks Rockin WR...very newsy info which is what I am looking for...check your private email.. Bob

06-12-2004, 09:27 PM	#3
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Aint that adorable! I love it! Thanks for posting those awesome photos! __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

06-13-2004, 10:24 AM	#6
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	Realy nice Luger! What is that small cut above the grip on both sides?? __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

06-13-2004, 10:29 AM	#7
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Cut is for the magazine safety that has been removed. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

06-13-2004, 04:13 PM	#11
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,911 Thanks: 1,987 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	The police magazines I have seen are generally only marked with the 1,2 or 3, and the serial number, but I do have this magazine; So, unit weapon marking did occur, I am unsure of the time period or for whom, but would gladly accept submissions to me and I will collate them for everyone. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

06-12-2004, 08:42 PM	#1
Bob in OH User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NE OH Posts: 129 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Pics of that Matched '29 DWM Police Rig Well guys, I took the plunge and snagged that all matching rig that I had inquired about below. While the gun was pricey, I just had to have it. I may have bought it too soon, but in a few years I figure value will improve. Again, the mags, holster, grip strap, and tool are all marked "L.E. 136.". No date on the toggle but made(?) in 1929 in the t-block. I'm not too concerned about it's value now but rather interested in comment on condition, history, or desirability. Thanks for the comments in advance...Bob

06-12-2004, 09:25 PM	#2
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	WOW...what a beauty...turning a bit green here!!!

06-12-2004, 09:42 PM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,911 Thanks: 1,987 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	Looks like you did alright to me! Very nice, honest wear, halos, looks nice! And a real luger, a Weimar Police Rig! Any other stamps on it, such as this one? Ed PS: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">..interested in comment on condition, history, or desirability.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Commented on condition, history, we can try to research it, desirability... Yes, please mail it to me in Colorado __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

06-12-2004, 09:49 PM	#5
Bob in OH User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NE OH Posts: 129 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Here's few more pics that didn't "fit" on the post above [8 pics max]....Thanks again for the thumbs up!! Only other obvious markings are Crown/N in several locations and WaA66.

06-13-2004, 10:29 AM	#8
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,034 Thanks: 1,020 Thanked 3,882 Times in 1,186 Posts	Hi, That cut was for the installation of a magazine safety, preventing trigger action with the magazine removed. These were later clipped or removed and are totally correct for this police luger.

06-13-2004, 01:17 PM	#9
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	Bob, That is a very gorgeous rig. Looking at it critically for a moment, the bottoms of the magazines seem very unusual. they are an odd combination of Police and Imperial markings. Imperial magazines used the + to designate the spare magazine in a set; Police forces marked their magazines 1 and 2. An Imperial magazine base would include the serial number suffix. Also, to the best of my knowledge it was not the practice to stamp the Police weapon number on the mag base. Many Police Lugerw were originally manufactured in .30 cal., then rebarrelled to 9mm in a Police armory. What we can see of the marks under your barrel intrigue me, is there any chance you could photograph all the markngs there, including the witness mark? Its interesting to see that this gun has the E/WaW66 acceptance stamp. Its hard to tell from your pictures, is that a c/N proof on the left receiver? --Dwight

06-13-2004, 04:02 PM	#10
Bob in OH User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NE OH Posts: 129 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Hi Dwight- I DO want the whole "history" of this piece so if there are any issues or enigmas...do tell. Here are a few more pics of the mag base and the witness mark. The font on the "6" in the unit and serial number appear identical. The second mag is shown in both mag base pics. As I very closely examine the witness mark they do NOT appear to exactly align. Also the alpha "t" on the barrel is more crude than the frame. Indeed, crown/N on the barrel and LS of the receiver. What do you make of all this?? Thanks...Bob

06-13-2004, 06:49 PM	#12
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	Bob, Thanks for the additional photos, particularly satisfying my interests with the witness mark. The witness mark on this pistol is not a concern, one would expect it to look like this on a rebarrel. The barrel suffix is certainly interesting, I wonder if there are other examples? --Dwight

06-14-2004, 09:57 AM	#13
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	A wonderful keeper Bob... congrats on what looks like a righteous Luger! Thanks for the great photos. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-14-2004, 09:05 PM	#14
SteveM User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,016 Thanks: 94 Thanked 275 Times in 137 Posts	Bob, Glad to see that you picked up the Sneak. Very nice rig.. SteveM

06-15-2004, 12:04 AM	#15
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	Bob, Send me your email address. --Dwight mailto:dwightg@pacifier.comdwightg@pacifier.com</a>

06-15-2004, 08:41 PM	#16
RockinWR User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: D/FW, Tx Posts: 278 Thanks: 109 Thanked 30 Times in 15 Posts	Bob, * Exceptional find of a very, very nice matching & complete Weimar "29 DWM" Police rig. * As posted previously, L.E.136 indicates issue to the Landjaegerei(rural constabulary) in the Erfurt district, inventory #136 per (at least) Instruction #40a for the Prussian Police, Berlin, 1932. These instructions were introduced in Feb. 25, 1932 and likely account for the grip strap markings on "t" & "u" examples found. * Trust you have Jan Still's, Weimar Luger & Early Nazi Lugers. This Vol. V, Pgs. 31-34 and associated pictures, adds documented detail to this variation from the research of Joe Wotka...a noted Police Luger researcher/expert. Essentially, by Prussian documents, Joe/Jan have gleaned "9000 officers & men were rearmed/trained in 1929." * BKIW produced these weapons during 1929 & early 1930. New holsters were made to support this effort and were made in 1929 as your example amply supports. * Not uncommon for the Police matching mags to bear the larger S/N numerals. While not commonly seen, the inventory number on the mag was likely a result of an inconsistent interpretation of the 1922 marking instructions which called for the "weapon" number to be present on Police pistols. Some Police armourers interpreted this to mean only the factory's S/N on the mag., some went with the inventory number on the plug too, & some covered the landscape by marking the full unit on the spine of the mag. * Also of interest is the Dec., 4, 1928 ARMY directive stating when the supply of wood base mags is depleted aluminum base mags would be used thereafter. This likely was followed by the Police as well per Weimar Lugers, Pg. 33. * Trust this helps your search for info. Respectfully, Bob

06-16-2004, 07:24 AM	#17
Bob in OH User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NE OH Posts: 129 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thanks Rockin WR...very newsy info which is what I am looking for...check your private email.. Bob