LugerForum Discussion Forums my profile | register | faq | search
upload photo | donate | calendar

Go Back   LugerForum Discussion Forums > Luger Discussion Forums > Krieghoff Lugers

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 08-21-2014, 10:28 AM   #1
aldo35
User
 
aldo35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Northern GA
Posts: 308
Thanks: 2,154
Thanked 135 Times in 67 Posts
Default Navy Marked Luger on GB Auctions

There is a Navy marked luger on GB for $1099. Serial # is 15400 and the last 0 looks forced on rear toggle and middle toggle. What are your thoughts.
aldo35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-21-2014, 11:00 AM   #2
John Sabato
Lifer
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
John Sabato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The Capital of the Free World
Posts: 10,150
Thanks: 3,003
Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts
Default

Aldo, please provide a link to the GB page where this gun is displayed.
__________________
regards, -John S

"...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL and are endowed by their Creator with certain UNALIENABLE rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."
John Sabato is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to John Sabato for your post:
Unread 08-21-2014, 11:11 AM   #3
lugerholsterrepair
Moderator
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
lugerholsterrepair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Arizona/Colorado
Posts: 7,756
Thanks: 4,821
Thanked 3,087 Times in 1,423 Posts
Default

This thing?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=436394634
__________________
Jerry Burney
11491 S. Guadalupe Drive

Yuma AZ 85367-6182


lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net

928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round
719 207-3331 (cell)


"For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."
lugerholsterrepair is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to lugerholsterrepair for your post:
Unread 08-21-2014, 12:53 PM   #4
John Sabato
Lifer
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
John Sabato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The Capital of the Free World
Posts: 10,150
Thanks: 3,003
Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts
Default

This is a refinished mixed parts non-matching gun with a 6 inch barrel. NOT a Navy Luger. The barrel isn't even a Navy barrel, just a 6 inch barrel. So don't waste your money thinking that this is a Navy anything...

The magazine is East German VOPO manufacture of the FXO type. This is indicated by the 2/1001 number on the side of the magazine tube.

This gun is worth LESS than $900 as a shooter IMHO.
__________________
regards, -John S

"...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL and are endowed by their Creator with certain UNALIENABLE rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."
John Sabato is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to John Sabato for your post:
Unread 08-21-2014, 01:12 PM   #5
Ron Wood
Moderator
2010 LugerForum
Patron
 
Ron Wood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso
Posts: 6,985
Thanks: 1,059
Thanked 5,082 Times in 1,673 Posts
Default

I can't find the one that Joseph (aldo35) asked about...I don't think the one in Jerry's link is it. We need a link or something to narrow down the search.
__________________
If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction
Ron Wood is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to Ron Wood for your post:
Unread 08-21-2014, 01:35 PM   #6
cirelaw
Lifer
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA
Posts: 12,216
Thanks: 6,209
Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts
Default

I know I should know this, What does 'altered' mean?? Eric
cirelaw is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to cirelaw for your post:
Unread 08-21-2014, 02:12 PM   #7
aldo35
User
 
aldo35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Northern GA
Posts: 308
Thanks: 2,154
Thanked 135 Times in 67 Posts
Default How do I post a link/

Not sure how to post a link It is probably somewhere here and I will look for it.

The one link already posted is not the pistol in question.
aldo35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-21-2014, 02:20 PM   #8
Ron Wood
Moderator
2010 LugerForum
Patron
 
Ron Wood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso
Posts: 6,985
Thanks: 1,059
Thanked 5,082 Times in 1,673 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cirelaw View Post
I know I should know this, What does 'altered' mean?? Eric
The First Issue Navy Lugers were manufactured to be "on safe" with the thumb safety in the up position. Since it was possible to knock it "off safe" while holstering, the safety was "altered" to be on safe in the down position. The lower safety marking was obliterated and a new "Gesichert" was stamped in the upper position so that it would be visible when the safety was on, in the new down position.
__________________
If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction
Ron Wood is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to Ron Wood for your post:
Unread 08-21-2014, 02:22 PM   #9
Ron Wood
Moderator
2010 LugerForum
Patron
 
Ron Wood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso
Posts: 6,985
Thanks: 1,059
Thanked 5,082 Times in 1,673 Posts
Default

Joseph,
If you can't figure out how to post a link, provide the Auction # of the item and we can search on that.
__________________
If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction
Ron Wood is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to Ron Wood for your post:
Unread 08-21-2014, 02:23 PM   #10
aldo35
User
 
aldo35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Northern GA
Posts: 308
Thanks: 2,154
Thanked 135 Times in 67 Posts
Default GunBroker Auction 436253647

Hi,

I couldn't find the answer in FAQ on posting a link so I tried copying holsterrepairs link

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction view....436253647

Hope this works.

Aldo
aldo35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-21-2014, 02:26 PM   #11
Ron Wood
Moderator
2010 LugerForum
Patron
 
Ron Wood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso
Posts: 6,985
Thanks: 1,059
Thanked 5,082 Times in 1,673 Posts
Default

That didn't work but this will:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=436253647

It is a Frankenluger. Probably a legitimate 1916 Navy receiver with added and renumbered parts. The perpetrator even added a Krieghoff proof on the barrel.
__________________
If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction
Ron Wood is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-21-2014, 02:26 PM   #12
aldo35
User
 
aldo35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Northern GA
Posts: 308
Thanks: 2,154
Thanked 135 Times in 67 Posts
Default

http//www.gunbroker.com/auction/view...item=436253647
aldo35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-21-2014, 02:32 PM   #13
Ron Wood
Moderator
2010 LugerForum
Patron
 
Ron Wood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso
Posts: 6,985
Thanks: 1,059
Thanked 5,082 Times in 1,673 Posts
Default

Joseph,
You have to copy the URL from the web site, you can't just edit Jerry's post...the link won't be embedded.

Eric,
That is the same one Jerry posted and it isn't the right one.

Click on the link I provided...it works.
__________________
If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction
Ron Wood is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 2 members says Thank You to Ron Wood for your post:
Unread 08-21-2014, 02:33 PM   #14
Norme
Always A
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
Norme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,414
Thanks: 223
Thanked 2,590 Times in 930 Posts
Default

Hi Aldo, Gunbroker lot # 436253647 is the one you are asking about. The receiver is from a 1916 Navy, the rest of the gun is not.
Regards, Norm
Norme is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-21-2014, 02:39 PM   #15
alanint
User
 
alanint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Marco Island, Florida
Posts: 4,867
Thanks: 1,685
Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts
Default

And those twin "zeros" on the rear toggle link were done as some class project at the local Kindergarten.......
alanint is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 2 members says Thank You to alanint for your post:
Unread 08-21-2014, 03:10 PM   #16
John Sabato
Lifer
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
John Sabato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The Capital of the Free World
Posts: 10,150
Thanks: 3,003
Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts
Default

Okay, now that we have a different Luger to look at. Here are my observations on THIS pistol.

As Ron has mentioned, the upper receiver appears to be a legitimate Navy Receiver from 1916. The barrel appears to be a Krieghoff manufactured replacement, and yet it is numbered to the upper receiver.

I don't have any references available to me at the moment, but I don't think military (Navy) receivers had 5 digit serial numbers... somebody correct me if I am guessing wrong on this fact. I have been known to be wrong in the past on at least some things, just ask my wife!

The right hand ZERO on the back of the rear toggle appears to have been added or overstamped on the original number (possibly an "8" or a "3" and is irregular in shape. If it were the original number stamping on this toggle, it would have been made with the same stamp that was used on the left hand ZERO, but is definitley a different size from that one. (Forced Matching and poorly done...Thanks Doug).

From what can be seen in the provided photographs, there is no serial number present on the lower frame above the trigger guard. This is a red flag for me. It is difficult to tell if it is parrallax distortion in the side photo, but it APPEARS that the front of the frame has been ground down or shaved so that no number appears there.

Since the barrel was replaced, I believe that the front of the upper receiver was shaved to match the new dimension of the lower so that it does not protrude from the lower frame when assembled, which would be a giveaway that the gun has been boosted.

It is possible that the number on the left side of the upper receiver may have been enhanced by the addition of the leading number "1" and the trailing "0" so that the original number may have been 540 instead of 15400.

No one has yet mentioned that this gun has been modified with a police safety installed over the sideplate...

While it is certainly possible that all the above modifications were made when a WW1 Navy gun was rebuilt into a gun for issue and service with a German police agency, I don't have much confidence in that theory. I think the gun is the product of Waffenfabrik USA to be sold as something that it is not.

Just my $0.02
__________________
regards, -John S

"...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL and are endowed by their Creator with certain UNALIENABLE rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."
John Sabato is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 2 members says Thank You to John Sabato for your post:
Unread 08-21-2014, 03:12 PM   #17
cirelaw
Lifer
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA
Posts: 12,216
Thanks: 6,209
Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts
Default

Brilliant Work you both!
cirelaw is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to cirelaw for your post:
Unread 08-21-2014, 03:21 PM   #18
John Sabato
Lifer
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
John Sabato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The Capital of the Free World
Posts: 10,150
Thanks: 3,003
Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts
Default

Aldo,

To provide a link or URL in your posts, you put a browser on the page you want to link, and copy the complete URL from the address bar on the browser and paste it into your post for the Lugerforum. For example the URL for this discussion page is:

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...201#post259201
__________________
regards, -John S

"...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL and are endowed by their Creator with certain UNALIENABLE rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."
John Sabato is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to John Sabato for your post:
Unread 08-21-2014, 03:26 PM   #19
Norme
Always A
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
Norme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,414
Thanks: 223
Thanked 2,590 Times in 930 Posts
Default

Hi John, 1916 Imperial Navies were numbered 1 to 8000, but the receivers had no external numbers. They were numbered with only the last two digits on the recoil lug (see photo).
Regards, Norm
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC_1277.jpg
Views:	27
Size:	63.4 KB
ID:	42982  

Norme is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to Norme for your post:
Unread 08-21-2014, 03:29 PM   #20
John Sabato
Lifer
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
John Sabato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The Capital of the Free World
Posts: 10,150
Thanks: 3,003
Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts
Default

Looks like my wife is right again! I hate it when that happens!

So what about the lower receiver/frame serial numbers Norme?
__________________
regards, -John S

"...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL and are endowed by their Creator with certain UNALIENABLE rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."
John Sabato is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1998 - 2023, Lugerforum.com