Tell tale signs of re-bluing.

I would like to ask for advice on identifying a weapon has been re-blued. I have recently aquired a Mauser manufactured P08 with matching numbers and suspect that it may have been re-blued based on the lack of wear on it (holster wear) It shows signs of some minor pitting but the lines are still crisp and the proof marks are all very legable. The current finish is quite deep but I'm wondering if it is too good. Any advice is greatly apreciated!

T

[Frank]

First, let me begin by saying that I personally have never seen a 100% Luger, except in Ralph Shattuck's Collection. For a pistol to have rust spots and mint blue would indicate a reblue. Next, the early Mauser Lugers (those made until mid 1937) were rust blue, with strawed small parts. The later Mauser Lugers were dip blued, including the small parts. If your Luger is a K-Date, G-Date, 1936 or 1937 prior to about the U-Block and it has all parts blue, then for sure it's a reblue. Small parts are takedown lever, magazine release button, trigger, safety lever and ejector. Hope this helps.

[Ted]

I would say for WWI DWM and Erfurts look for bluing on the inside of the reciever and top of the frame. Look for the safety marking GESICHERT NOT to me painted in, look for bluing OVER pitting, try this with a Jewelers Loup you can see pitting that the reworker MIGHT not have gotten all of, but your eye cant see it. Look for full blue on high wear areas like the sideplate, sides of the barrel at the muzzle and ends of the frame rails on both side. A gun that is RARE or in VERY mint shape is always suspect in my view. Look at the muzzle, if the rework is poor the muzzle might be polished TOO high and the restrawed parts might be polished too high also. I usually either polish the heck out of the parts and muzzle or cut them to a matt to match the original types, in either instance I place my rework mark on the bottom of the stock lug. When bluing is placed over an old surface a lot of times the dip bluing appears ashen or matte black/gray or even parkerized. Most original guns will be a little shinier if dip or salt blued.

I have seen this on the import marked guns. Just my observations. Ted

[Ted]

Sorry I didn't read that you had a Mauser but some of the same items apply. The 1937 Vintage S/42 can be either rust blued with strawed parts or salt blued with blued small parts so if you are talking about that year marked S/42 the serial number (or serial range, subscript letter) is important. Usually if the gun looks too good, it probably has been redone! Ted

[Johnny Peppers]

A Mini-Maglite is essential equipment for a gunshow. The little flashlight puts out an intense light that will shine through the blue to show any oxidation under the blue. All the Lugers out there have been around between 50 and 100 years, and even a 99% pistol will show some oxidation under the blue. If the pistol is absolutely free of oxidation I would be extremely suspicious of it. As mentioned before, if a pistol has rust pits, the rust will have removed the blue. If the pitting is blue also, watch out.

Another sad fact is that the market also has a lot of "reborn virgins" in it. A 40% pistol with no pitting will be chemically stripped, reblued back to the correct type and color, and then possibly taken back down to about 97% with wear in all the correct places. These pistols are not your typical Soviet Bloc dip blued relics, but are expertly done and normally require a close examination. This is one reason not to recut the checkering on your collector pieces. If you find one thing that doesn't appear right, you automatically wonder what else has been done to the pistol.

You also might look for the "hickey" where the rear toggle link strikes the back of the frame during firing. Also look at the ramps on the frame where the rear toggle knobs strike it during the firing cycle.

Thank you all for all the great responses!

It confirms my suspicion that I have a very good re-work of what was probibly a very good original. From what I understand of the weapon it was brought in to the US by a G.I back in the fifties. He had aquired it from a leutenint in the Bundeswier(SP?). I'm somewhat relieved that it's not quite a collectable, firing it won't make me cringe!

T

Nice pistols are not truly all that uncommon, especially the later dates of 1941 and 1942 and especially with later date P.38s. Officers and non-coms on the Western Front basically saw very little combat and many Lugers never left their holster until they were surrendered to a GI. Figure it, 2 or 3 year old brand new pistols that were carried sometimes very little became trophy's that then sat in a drawer for 50 years. There has been more attrition through careless ownership than there probably was during Western theater operations.


I used to know a fellow that was part of the Normandy breakout in the Falaise Pocket area. He used to tell a story about how he and his men came across an freight train with a shot out steam engine that was loaded with weapons. Several boxcars were full of brand new P.38s, of which they promptly liberated as many as they could carry.

He says that later when they were in their rest area, one of the guys shot himself with a P.38 when the hammer drop safety failed. This caused the CO to order all of the pistols to be turned in right now.


So really, there are a lot of mint pistols out there.

But, take the advice that others have given you and be wary of pistols that are just "too nice".


Mike