LugerForum Discussion Forums my profile | register | faq | search
upload photo | donate | calendar

Go Back   LugerForum Discussion Forums > Luger Discussion Forums > Artillery Lugers

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 07-06-2011, 10:23 PM   #1
GeorgeA
New User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 3
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 1 Post
Default 1917 Artillery

Newbie here, thought I'd share my grandfather's captured Luger from WW I. As a South African studying at Cambridge, he joined the Royal Garrison Artillery and served in France, winning the Military Cross and bar. At some point he captured this pistol, which is a 1917 artillery model, serial 4181. It's all original, with the holster stock, cleaning rod and tool.

I'd be interested to get any information and history about this particular weapon, if anyone can help. Let me know if you want more pics.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC00365.jpg
Views:	174
Size:	245.7 KB
ID:	19936  

Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC00366.jpg
Views:	159
Size:	233.3 KB
ID:	19937  

Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC00367.jpg
Views:	155
Size:	157.5 KB
ID:	19938  

Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC00368.jpg
Views:	164
Size:	148.1 KB
ID:	19939  

GeorgeA is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 4 members says Thank You to GeorgeA for your post:
Unread 07-07-2011, 12:13 AM   #2
Norme
Always A
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
Norme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,417
Thanks: 226
Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts
Default

Hi George, Welcome to the forum! Thanks for showing us pictures of your beautiful 1917 Artillery. We'd love to see photos of the stock and holster too. Unfortunately there is no way we can help you with this gun's history, you already know more than we can possibly tell you. Regards, Norm
Norme is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-07-2011, 01:14 AM   #3
MFC
User
 
MFC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,237
Thanks: 183
Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts
Default

Hi George,
Welcome to the forum. The full S# is 4181c. Very nice artillery Luger with front and rear fine tune sights. Fine tune sights began to be fazed out during 1917.
Thanks for posting. More pics please!!!
__________________
Mike C.
MFC is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-07-2011, 11:17 AM   #4
cirelaw
Lifer
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA
Posts: 12,216
Thanks: 6,209
Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts
Default

A real pretty piece!
cirelaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-07-2011, 02:15 PM   #5
John Sabato
Lifer
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
John Sabato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The Capital of the Free World
Posts: 10,154
Thanks: 3,003
Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts
Default

Let me add my welome to the forum and please do grace us with additional photos of this fine example of a 1917 Artillery Model.
__________________
regards, -John S

"...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL and are endowed by their Creator with certain UNALIENABLE rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."
John Sabato is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-09-2011, 02:36 PM   #6
GeorgeA
New User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 3
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 1 Post
Default Holster Photos

Finally got around to taking some pics of the holster. Let me know if there are any details of interest and I'll take some more.

I am concerned that the leather needs some TLC. So I'd welcome advice on this topic, as I don't want to do the wrong thing.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC00575.jpg
Views:	157
Size:	243.4 KB
ID:	21629  

Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC00576.jpg
Views:	136
Size:	243.1 KB
ID:	21630  

Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC00577.jpg
Views:	154
Size:	162.9 KB
ID:	21631  

GeorgeA is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-09-2011, 02:45 PM   #7
Neil Young
Lifer
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
Neil Young's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Scottsboro, Alabama
Posts: 546
Thanks: 559
Thanked 442 Times in 168 Posts
Default

Absolutely beautiful rig. Thanks for sharing.

Neil
__________________
Neil The hurrier I go the behinder I get. Sometimes it takes me all day to get nothing done.
Neil Young is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-09-2011, 07:52 PM   #8
spartacus38
Patron
LugerForum
Patron
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: South Lake Tahoe,CA.
Posts: 695
Thanks: 0
Thanked 70 Times in 56 Posts
Default

What is the date of the holster?
Bob
spartacus38 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-09-2011, 10:20 PM   #9
GeorgeA
New User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 3
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 1 Post
Default

This is the only marking I have been able to find on the holster:

303
a
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC00580.jpg
Views:	154
Size:	82.0 KB
ID:	21636  

GeorgeA is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-13-2011, 10:43 AM   #10
johnnygeep
User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: St. Louis, MO area
Posts: 7
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Hello,

Regarding the leather care, first and foremost, all leather care products are bad for leather. Initially they may clean it up and make it look good but long term they will cause faster deterioration. Mink oil, saddle soap, neatsfoot oil, gun oil, etc…all bad.

A few years ago I managed to get in touch, by phone, with a restoration person at the Smithsonian. She confirmed this. Her basic comment was "do nothing". She was very insistent on this. When pressed a little she said that on very fragile items they use a product (can't remember the brand) that contains a silicon or acrylic base. Apparently it is very thin and soaks into the leather to bond the fibers together. This preserves the item but basically renders it unusable. Of course, it was probably unusable to start.

Another point, oil evaporates. Not very fast but it does. The oils used to tan leather will evaporate and leave the piece dry, stiff and subject to damage if used. Even unissued, never used leather items will dry out. So if you want to use it these then the oils need to be replaced.

Now having said that, from my own experience I have used two products that seem to work well and do minimal harm. One was a product called “ British Museum Leather Dressing” by Fisher Scientific Company. They don’t make this anymore.

The other is Pecards Leather dressing. Pecards seems to be the best choice and used/recommended by most. It is a very thick paste. It will darken leather. Some stores carry it or you can buy it online. Unless you have a garage full of old leather buy the small container. A little goes a long way.

When working with your leather items first scrub your hands to remove oils and acids. Or, better, wear surgical gloves. Two techniques I use are as follows. One is for the outside of the leather, the other for the inside/backside.

Lightly warm the leather dressing container in a bowl of warm water to soften it. Not hot, this will cook your leather and it is ruined. Touch it to your wrist. If it feels hot it is too hot.

For the outside leather rub a small amount of dressing onto your hands. Then lightly rub over the outside of the piece. If you use only a small amount it will not significantly darken the leather.

My personal preference is to apply the dressing to the inside of the item. This will add the oils but not darken the outside. Again rub a small amount of dressing onto your hands. Now apply to the inside of the item.

With both techniques you will want to try to get into every crack and cranny. Don’t worry about this. You will end up putting too much dressing in these areas and causing a dark color mismatch. The oils will soak and spread out.

Remove any excess dressing. Remember, small amounts, lightly applied. Now, walk away. Let the item naturally absorb the oils. This could take days or weeks. If you feel you need to add more dressing or touchup some spots you missed wait a few days between applications. Several light coats are better than a couple heavy coats.

Again, all leather care products are bad. But if you want to use an item and follow the techniques above you should only cause minimal damage. Will collectors two hundred years from now curse you…maybe, but it is yours to own and enjoy. The choice is up to you.
johnnygeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-13-2011, 11:24 AM   #11
Norme
Always A
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
Norme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,417
Thanks: 226
Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts
Default

The topic of leather care has been addressed many times, on both forums. Despite what Johnny has said, the consensus view is that Pecard's is bad and Connolly's is good. I've used Connolly Leather Dressing on a few scuffed and dried out holsters myself and have been quite pleased with the results. The leather does get noticeably darker, but appears much healthier. If there is any interest I can post before and after photos, perhaps on a new, stand alone, thread. Regards, Norm
Norme is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-13-2011, 01:01 PM   #12
cirelaw
Lifer
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA
Posts: 12,216
Thanks: 6,209
Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts
Default

Hi, Eric I am interested as I own a 1900 Test Holster that I can't afford to ruin it. Its been a while since I asked! I really don't remember useing anything but one of Debbys' facecloth!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	holster care 1.jpg
Views:	147
Size:	83.7 KB
ID:	22260  

Click image for larger version

Name:	holster care 2.jpg
Views:	127
Size:	78.7 KB
ID:	22261  

Click image for larger version

Name:	holster care 3.jpg
Views:	142
Size:	90.2 KB
ID:	22262  

cirelaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-14-2011, 05:08 PM   #13
cirelaw
Lifer
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA
Posts: 12,216
Thanks: 6,209
Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts
Default I Finally got my 1917 Marked Artillery, My Biggest fear

is there are stress points that have to be addressed. Should I just ignore or another suggestion would have Jerry surgically remove the weak part. Another issue We live in Florida with air conditioning all the time. Should I store it differently my friends out west? Tks Eric
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	my artillerey a.jpg
Views:	149
Size:	68.9 KB
ID:	22317  

Click image for larger version

Name:	my artillery 2.jpg
Views:	150
Size:	77.0 KB
ID:	22318  

Click image for larger version

Name:	stress leather.jpg
Views:	148
Size:	65.7 KB
ID:	22319  

cirelaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
1917, artillery, holster, luger

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1998 - 2024, Lugerforum.com