LugerForum Discussion Forums my profile | register | faq | search
upload photo | donate | calendar

Go Back   LugerForum Discussion Forums > Luger Discussion Forums > Swiss Lugers

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 06-28-2020, 02:11 PM   #1
a65l
User
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 17 Times in 8 Posts
Default I guess I'm a collector now...

Hello! Long story short, always wanted a Luger, got talked into a Swiss 1924 some years ago, and haven't regretted it a bit. Yesterday we had a mis-marked 1929 military model come up at auction, and it wasn't bid very high. No interest, so I bid.. mine. It's interesting in a few ways, but probablly nothing really super special.





There is a very faint import mark on the r/h side of the frame, sadly.



Interesting that there is no serial number on the rear toggle link, but I understand that's not uncommon, if the part was replaced. There is also no serial number on the barrel. The proof is there, but no s/n...









I couldn't find any reference to this mark other than here... my '24 dosen't have it



I can't make out the mark on the left, it's a proof, obviously, but which one I can't tell



I see the E25 in more than a few places with the cross

I did find a "P" stamped on the Frame, I think, but no dates after. Hopefully I can get down to the back of the lot and put some rounds through it this afternoon..
a65l is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 8 members says Thank You to a65l for your post:
Unread 06-28-2020, 04:02 PM   #2
Vlim
Moderator
Lifetime
LugerForum Patron
 
Vlim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Europe
Posts: 5,053
Thanks: 1,036
Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts
Default

Nice gun.

All parts have the subcobtractor and steel type marked when needed. The marking on the left bottom of the receiver is that of SIG in Neunhausen, who manufactured the receiver

The marking on the frame rear is that of Waffenfabrik Bern.
The frame was also made by SIG, you will find their marking in the rear frame well also.
Vlim is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 6 members says Thank You to Vlim for your post:
Unread 06-28-2020, 04:26 PM   #3
Mac Cat
Lifer
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
Mac Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 725
Thanks: 2,090
Thanked 606 Times in 327 Posts
Default

nice pictures, BTW !
Mac Cat is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to Mac Cat for your post:
Unread 06-28-2020, 05:07 PM   #4
a65l
User
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 17 Times in 8 Posts
Default

Thanks! I wonder about the barrel not having a serial number, is that an indication that it was replaced at some point, or did some get out with no sn?
a65l is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to a65l for your post:
Unread 06-28-2020, 05:15 PM   #5
Vlim
Moderator
Lifetime
LugerForum Patron
 
Vlim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Europe
Posts: 5,053
Thanks: 1,036
Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts
Default

I think the gun saw some repairs after being privatized.
It seems that whoever took ownership after military service kept the pistol and used it well.
Vlim is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to Vlim for your post:
Unread 06-28-2020, 05:28 PM   #6
a65l
User
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 17 Times in 8 Posts
Default

I thought I saw a P somewhere, but not in any of the usual places. I ran some rounds through it, so it will get cleaned here tonight or tomorrow and I'll look again.
a65l is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to a65l for your post:
Unread 06-28-2020, 10:14 PM   #7
Fla.Mallard
User
 
Fla.Mallard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 99
Thanks: 244
Thanked 95 Times in 37 Posts
Default

"There is a very faint import mark on the r/h side of the frame, sadly."

Newbie question: How much does an import engraving/stamp devalue a pistol?
Fla.Mallard is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-28-2020, 10:46 PM   #8
ithacaartist
Twice a Lifer
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
ithacaartist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY
Posts: 3,346
Thanks: 7,271
Thanked 2,578 Times in 1,365 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fla.Mallard View Post
"There is a very faint import mark on the r/h side of the frame, sadly."

Newbie question: How much does an import engraving/stamp devalue a pistol?
It depends on whom you ask. Some collectors eschew import marks as unoriginal. Others consider it part of a pistol's history/provenance. Overall, it doesn't kill a pistol's value "bigly" but some would pay more for the same gun without one.
__________________
"... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894
ithacaartist is online now   Reply With Quote
The following 5 members says Thank You to ithacaartist for your post:
Unread 06-29-2020, 08:51 PM   #9
Edward Tinker
Super Moderator
Eternal Lifer
LugerForum
Patron
 
Edward Tinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North of Spokane, WA
Posts: 15,933
Thanks: 2,032
Thanked 4,528 Times in 2,091 Posts
Default

I would agree and disagree on import markings - old school thought - OH MY GAWD, AN IMPORT MARKING !!

Half to shooter value!!

------------------------------------
Todays collectors - eh, maybe 20%....

-------------------------------------

To every collector - it depends - I would say most collectors would say 30-40% - BUT, it depends on the gun, rarity, condition, desirability

I'll buy a rare item with an import marking (rare equals, do I want it sometimes)

Ed
__________________
Edward Tinker
************
Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers
Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

Edward Tinker is online now   Reply With Quote
The following 2 members says Thank You to Edward Tinker for your post:
Unread 06-29-2020, 08:15 AM   #10
a65l
User
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 17 Times in 8 Posts
Default

I only comment on the import mark as its one of the more subtle ones I've seen, and it's in an inconspicous place. As opposed to, say, my CZ 52 where's its etched across the side of the slide in leters as big as they could get it.
a65l is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to a65l for your post:
Unread 06-29-2020, 08:31 AM   #11
CptCurl
User
 
CptCurl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Botetourt County, Virginia
Posts: 120
Thanks: 93
Thanked 140 Times in 46 Posts
Default

Nice pistol! Yep, you are a collector.

How did it shoot?

Curl
CptCurl is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to CptCurl for your post:
Unread 06-29-2020, 09:50 AM   #12
a65l
User
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 17 Times in 8 Posts
Default

Hand held off the bench at ~25 yards or so, PPU factory ammo. My disclamer here is that I'm going through a bout of Bells Palsy, and it's my shootin' eye that's affected. Full of ointment and eyedrops most of the time, so my hold may not have been all that consistent. Ran about 50 rounds through it, no malfunctions, no issues, like a fine swiss watch.

This is a 6'o clock hold, seems a little high for my tastes but....

a65l is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to a65l for your post:
Unread 06-29-2020, 12:21 PM   #13
Doubs
User
 
Doubs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Byron, Georgia
Posts: 1,696
Thanks: 792
Thanked 1,679 Times in 552 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by a65l View Post
Hand held off the bench at ~25 yards or so, PPU factory ammo. Ran about 50 rounds through it, no malfunctions, no issues, like a fine swiss watch. This is a 6'o clock hold, seems a little high for my tastes but....
That's not bad at 25 yards. A bit high, yes... but the Swiss may have zeroed their pistols at 50 meters or more. They were intended to hit large (human size) targets so a few inches high at 25 yards wouldn't be an issue.

50 rounds without a problem is great. You have a good one that will give you a lot of pleasure.
Doubs is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to Doubs for your post:
Unread 06-29-2020, 12:40 PM   #14
Fla.Mallard
User
 
Fla.Mallard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 99
Thanks: 244
Thanked 95 Times in 37 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doubs View Post
That's not bad at 25 yards. A bit high, yes... but the Swiss may have zeroed their pistols at 50 meters or more.
All 5 of my Lugers shoot high. Maybe it's them or maybe it's me.
Fla.Mallard is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to Fla.Mallard for your post:
Unread 06-29-2020, 10:05 AM   #15
mrerick
Super Moderator - Patron
LugerForum
Life Patron
 
mrerick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA
Posts: 3,909
Thanks: 1,374
Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts
Default

Many of these were reworked as part of being decommissioned (a Bern rework was offered to the officers when they were retiring). The replacement parts may have been installed at that time.

I wouldn't consider it "mismatched" as the work was likely arsenal work, and rework of Swiss lugers by the arsenal is quite normal.

The 699xx serial number is a rather high one. I don't have my books here; what is the date on the frame in front of the slide lock?

These high precision Lugers are excellent.
__________________
Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum -
- Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.
mrerick is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-29-2020, 10:32 AM   #16
a65l
User
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 17 Times in 8 Posts
Default

Hard to tell...



a65l is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 2 members says Thank You to a65l for your post:
Unread 06-29-2020, 11:05 AM   #17
mrerick
Super Moderator - Patron
LugerForum
Life Patron
 
mrerick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA
Posts: 3,909
Thanks: 1,374
Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts
Default

So, made in 1943. The month is probably stamped to the left of the 4 in the shadow.
__________________
Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum -
- Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.
mrerick is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-29-2020, 11:13 AM   #18
a65l
User
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 17 Times in 8 Posts
Default

I don't see anything there.. looked very carefully with flashlight and magnifer... The only other thing I see is that script looking "3"? between the 4 and the 3. Might not even be a number..
a65l is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-29-2020, 12:01 PM   #19
Proofed
User
 
Proofed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Pa.
Posts: 157
Thanks: 535
Thanked 338 Times in 90 Posts
Default Nice

Real nice pistol and great photos Thanks
Proofed is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-29-2020, 01:07 PM   #20
a65l
User
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 17 Times in 8 Posts
Default

I don't recall where my '24 shoots. I'll have to take it out today or tomorrow and find out...
a65l is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to a65l for your post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1998 - 2024, Lugerforum.com