Restoration/Restamping Question.

03-17-2002, 03:12 PM

New to the board here, this is my first posting.I am looking to buy a shooter grade Luger, a DWM. I am planning a total restoration of the piece, but I need to get two cottect wooden bottom magazines for it, and the barrel will need to be replaced. Id there anyone making reproduction wooden bottom magazines? And is there any place(s) that I can get new replacement parts restapmed to match the SN#'s/proofs of my pistol? looking for authenticity too here, not just shooting.

Thor · 03-17-2002, 03:25 PM

For the benefit for any of my potential new clients being a restorer of Lugers, I don't do this type of work. I have been asked in the past to do this on a larger output (many guns)for another person (he said he had imported over 1000 Lugers) and I declined. After I talked to the gentleman importing the large number of weapons, I realized his attentions were not in line with mine and that my adding my rework mark was the right thing for me to do. ~Thor~

03-17-2002, 03:46 PM

What Thor was trying to say by being diplomatic, was that in the collecting field of guns, and specifically of Lugers, a restore that then attempts to have all matching numbers is wrong.

That by applying numbers and then making it look original, then upon later selling it (maybe two people down the way), it might get sold by someone as "mint" and this would be wrong. Restoring to look good is all right, but by changing numbers to match is a bit too much.

In the collector car market, stamping matching VIN numbers on a Shelby Mustang would be considered bad.

Finding matching parts and putting them on, I don't look at as so bad, because they are original parts, but most collectors would frown on this method also.

Ed

03-17-2002, 03:57 PM

My appologies. All the fakes and such is why I got out of collecting years ago. But what you say makes sense. Of course I would never resell the gun as original, but there maybe some one that would. Well, it was just a thought, maybe I will just stick with what Im doing and stay away from all the German stuff.....GOODBYE~!!!!

Lonnie Zimmerman · 03-17-2002, 04:17 PM

03-17-2002, 04:33 PM

Hey!

I was trying to show the downside of restoring and then using a Luger in the wrong way. I wasn't meaning to say YOU were going to do the same. And I apoligize for any words to that effect.

Wanting a shooter to have fun with is not hard to do, you can by a nice Luger for around $400 - $500 dollars, sometimes cheaper, they are a fun gun and the history behind them is great!

Stay around, have some fun,

Ed

Thor · 03-17-2002, 04:39 PM

Ed, I didnt mean to give Mark that impression either, It was just that his post made me think about another gentleman that had ask the same type of question quite a long time ago, and the situation was different as he had a very large number he admittedly was going to resell at a higher price. I DO believe that many persons wanting an entirely appearing matching gun wants it for themselves, but what happens after we pass on and the guns are sold in an estate sell and someone picks it up and says, "look, all original!" Then he sells it to somebody else.....oh well. Just my opinion, the forum is for everyone as long as we are polite to each other. This topic CERTAINLY can be discussed. ~Thor~

03-17-2002, 04:46 PM

I agree, Thor. Its one of those "Don't shoot the messenger for bad news deal" Its possible but not probable that Lugers could end up in the same mess that the German daggers, boot knives, badges,and paratrooper helmets are. The Lugers complexity probably keeps that from happening. But if you wanted to you could do it as could others and as some certainly are. Its like when Colt started manufacturing 1860 Armys again. Who will know in 25-50 years?

Roadkill

03-17-2002, 05:08 PM

Currently, there is a large collection of lugers that will gradually appear in the market from a decades long luger collector in Colorado. He has some of the rarest and most interesting lugers you will ever see. His asking prices on many of the more common ones are not unreasonable except for one small problem. He has a habit of "freshening up" a gun for sale. He especially likes to add back some straw color to the straw parts. Fortunately, he over polishes the parts and they look like cheap jewelry--it is fairly easy to tell the refinishing. Looking over his inventory is an opportunity to learn the difference between original finish and refinished. Many grips are not original, also.

If you can find one that wasn't freshened up, you can get a good piece at a fair price, but otherwise look out.

The point is that this is a serious problem and it costs some folks big bucks lost to non-original pieces. There is no reason to be upset when someone points out the potential harm that can be done from recreating (there is no such thing as restoring) a luger. Try not to be too sensitive to honest and important information contributed by experienced collectors. Save the upset for the unscrupulous.

dm

03-17-2002, 05:46 PM

I look back now and I see what a screw up I made in posting such an idiotic question. IN ALL HONESTY, I didnt know that people were actually doing that on the collectors market these days to fool people.These people will one day pay for their dishonesty, you can bank on it!!! I thought that since there was so many new trends and technology with the restoration process people are doing, that this was just part of the services they offered.What brought me to even consider the idea of buying a shooter grade Luger was Teds Strawing Services. I Must say after seeing his reworked exapmles, I said to my self,These are just beautiful--- "I just have to have one of those, maybe this is an option to own a Luger that looks as good as it shoots". Your work Ted, is stunning!!!!I dont have the words to describe it..Im still going back and forth to your web site looking at those reworked examples. I in no way want to destroy the fun in collecting for people and I for sure dont want people to think that I do this to cheat people. Therefore, Im just scratching the idea all together, I would rather do without than destroy the fun of collecting for others. Its not worth it.Again my appologies to all. And happy collecting to all of you.!!!

Dok · 03-17-2002, 07:28 PM

I have to agree with you on the quality of Ted's work. I did exactly what you are considering, I took a beat up old Luger and had Ted do a Total Doll Job on it. But the things I asked him to do while beautiful to me, would NEVER be confused as original (see "The Jewel" in the owners corners under Dok). I now have a beaut of a Luger that turns heads at the range, and us a joy to shoot. If this is what you want - GO FER IT!

03-18-2002, 02:38 PM

Mark N., you have nothing to apologize for that most others including myself have to apologize for. I have some lugers with 0% finish I intend to have redone to recreate their original appearance. Unfortunately, I have to make clear the difference b/w orig and recreated finish so I do not "fool" someone else wrongfully. At this point, an important part of that effort is to be very open and publically circulate knowledge of those two K-date lugers s/n 1062 and 1146 so their history is well-documented and known. That way, they can be tracked by luger collectors after I no longer have them sitting on my desk (which will be after I am gone and I hope that is no less than 50 years hence).

03-17-2002, 03:12 PM	#1
Mark N. Guest Posts: n/a	Restoration/Restamping Question. New to the board here, this is my first posting.I am looking to buy a shooter grade Luger, a DWM. I am planning a total restoration of the piece, but I need to get two cottect wooden bottom magazines for it, and the barrel will need to be replaced. Id there anyone making reproduction wooden bottom magazines? And is there any place(s) that I can get new replacement parts restapmed to match the SN#'s/proofs of my pistol? looking for authenticity too here, not just shooting.

03-17-2002, 03:25 PM	#2
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: Restoration/Restamping Question. For the benefit for any of my potential new clients being a restorer of Lugers, I don't do this type of work. I have been asked in the past to do this on a larger output (many guns)for another person (he said he had imported over 1000 Lugers) and I declined. After I talked to the gentleman importing the large number of weapons, I realized his attentions were not in line with mine and that my adding my rework mark was the right thing for me to do. ~Thor~

03-17-2002, 03:46 PM	#3
66mustang Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Restoration/Restamping Question. What Thor was trying to say by being diplomatic, was that in the collecting field of guns, and specifically of Lugers, a restore that then attempts to have all matching numbers is wrong. That by applying numbers and then making it look original, then upon later selling it (maybe two people down the way), it might get sold by someone as "mint" and this would be wrong. Restoring to look good is all right, but by changing numbers to match is a bit too much. In the collector car market, stamping matching VIN numbers on a Shelby Mustang would be considered bad. Finding matching parts and putting them on, I don't look at as so bad, because they are original parts, but most collectors would frown on this method also. Ed

03-17-2002, 03:57 PM	#4
Mark N. Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Restoration/Restamping Question. My appologies. All the fakes and such is why I got out of collecting years ago. But what you say makes sense. Of course I would never resell the gun as original, but there maybe some one that would. Well, it was just a thought, maybe I will just stick with what Im doing and stay away from all the German stuff.....GOODBYE~!!!!

03-17-2002, 04:17 PM	#5
Lonnie Zimmerman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 523 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: goodby!!. (EOM)

03-17-2002, 04:33 PM	#6
66mustang Guest Posts: n/a	HEY!! Hey! I was trying to show the downside of restoring and then using a Luger in the wrong way. I wasn't meaning to say YOU were going to do the same. And I apoligize for any words to that effect. Wanting a shooter to have fun with is not hard to do, you can by a nice Luger for around $400 - $500 dollars, sometimes cheaper, they are a fun gun and the history behind them is great! Stay around, have some fun, Ed

03-17-2002, 04:39 PM	#7
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: HEY!! Ed, I didnt mean to give Mark that impression either, It was just that his post made me think about another gentleman that had ask the same type of question quite a long time ago, and the situation was different as he had a very large number he admittedly was going to resell at a higher price. I DO believe that many persons wanting an entirely appearing matching gun wants it for themselves, but what happens after we pass on and the guns are sold in an estate sell and someone picks it up and says, "look, all original!" Then he sells it to somebody else.....oh well. Just my opinion, the forum is for everyone as long as we are polite to each other. This topic CERTAINLY can be discussed. ~Thor~

03-17-2002, 04:46 PM	#8
R. Grady/Roadkill Guest Posts: n/a	Re: HEY!! I agree, Thor. Its one of those "Don't shoot the messenger for bad news deal" Its possible but not probable that Lugers could end up in the same mess that the German daggers, boot knives, badges,and paratrooper helmets are. The Lugers complexity probably keeps that from happening. But if you wanted to you could do it as could others and as some certainly are. Its like when Colt started manufacturing 1860 Armys again. Who will know in 25-50 years? Roadkill

03-17-2002, 05:08 PM	#9
mlm Guest Posts: n/a	Re: HEY!! Currently, there is a large collection of lugers that will gradually appear in the market from a decades long luger collector in Colorado. He has some of the rarest and most interesting lugers you will ever see. His asking prices on many of the more common ones are not unreasonable except for one small problem. He has a habit of "freshening up" a gun for sale. He especially likes to add back some straw color to the straw parts. Fortunately, he over polishes the parts and they look like cheap jewelry--it is fairly easy to tell the refinishing. Looking over his inventory is an opportunity to learn the difference between original finish and refinished. Many grips are not original, also. If you can find one that wasn't freshened up, you can get a good piece at a fair price, but otherwise look out. The point is that this is a serious problem and it costs some folks big bucks lost to non-original pieces. There is no reason to be upset when someone points out the potential harm that can be done from recreating (there is no such thing as restoring) a luger. Try not to be too sensitive to honest and important information contributed by experienced collectors. Save the upset for the unscrupulous. dm

03-17-2002, 05:46 PM	#10
Mark N. Guest Posts: n/a	SORRY TO ALL. I look back now and I see what a screw up I made in posting such an idiotic question. IN ALL HONESTY, I didnt know that people were actually doing that on the collectors market these days to fool people.These people will one day pay for their dishonesty, you can bank on it!!! I thought that since there was so many new trends and technology with the restoration process people are doing, that this was just part of the services they offered.What brought me to even consider the idea of buying a shooter grade Luger was Teds Strawing Services. I Must say after seeing his reworked exapmles, I said to my self,These are just beautiful--- "I just have to have one of those, maybe this is an option to own a Luger that looks as good as it shoots". Your work Ted, is stunning!!!!I dont have the words to describe it..Im still going back and forth to your web site looking at those reworked examples. I in no way want to destroy the fun in collecting for people and I for sure dont want people to think that I do this to cheat people. Therefore, Im just scratching the idea all together, I would rather do without than destroy the fun of collecting for others. Its not worth it.Again my appologies to all. And happy collecting to all of you.!!!

03-17-2002, 07:28 PM	#11
Dok RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bermuda (Eat Your Heart Out) Posts: 1,626 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Well Mark... I have to agree with you on the quality of Ted's work. I did exactly what you are considering, I took a beat up old Luger and had Ted do a Total Doll Job on it. But the things I asked him to do while beautiful to me, would NEVER be confused as original (see "The Jewel" in the owners corners under Dok). I now have a beaut of a Luger that turns heads at the range, and us a joy to shoot. If this is what you want - GO FER IT!

03-18-2002, 02:38 PM	#12
mlm Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Well Mark... Mark N., you have nothing to apologize for that most others including myself have to apologize for. I have some lugers with 0% finish I intend to have redone to recreate their original appearance. Unfortunately, I have to make clear the difference b/w orig and recreated finish so I do not "fool" someone else wrongfully. At this point, an important part of that effort is to be very open and publically circulate knowledge of those two K-date lugers s/n 1062 and 1146 so their history is well-documented and known. That way, they can be tracked by luger collectors after I no longer have them sitting on my desk (which will be after I am gone and I hope that is no less than 50 years hence).