Should I be dissapointed?

Weasel505 · 12-20-2009, 08:34 PM

Hi all,

Haven't posted much lately cuz I have little to contribute, but I drop in every day. Now I got a question:

Today I scored an LP.08, DWM 1917, at the Valley Forge (Pennsylvania, USA) gun show. The piece was touted to be all matching, and I paid a little over $2K. And it's beautiful, good blue and straw, good barrel, etc. So I get it home and look it over with the magnifying glass, and I find that the numbers on the two pieces of the rear sight do not match the rest of the gun.

I know, caveat emptor. The dealer is known to be OK and I've bought from him before. I really don't think he deliberately deceived me.

My question: HowPO-ed would YOU be if this happened to you? I started a thread some months ago about an artillery Luger with an unmarked hold-open. The consensus then was that screw it, why let a small flaw keep you from buying an otherwise fine firearm, an excellent addition to my collection?

Well, I passed on that one, but now have this one. Did I screw up? Should I ask for my money back? I assume that, given the excellent quality of the gun, the sight must have been an armorer's repair job, back in the day.

I'll have pics next weekend; daylight saving's time here in the US limits the good sunlight for photography (for us working stiffs).

Please, opinions and ideas welcome. Thanks for reading, I really value the knowledge of the members of this site.

Bob

FNorm · 12-20-2009, 08:47 PM

Well, I bought a 1914 Erfurt LP.08 with a proofed but unnumbered safety, and was happy to get it. I don't think I fuss much about the sights. But it's all up to the individual.

FN

Norme · 12-20-2009, 08:52 PM

I have a 1914 LP 08 Erfurt with a numbered but unproofed trigger plate. How about that?

sheepherder · 12-20-2009, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weasel505

... I find that the numbers on the two pieces of the rear sight do not match the rest of the gun.

My question: HowPO-ed would YOU be if this happened to you?

Not PO'ed at all. Numbers mean little to me. Finish matching, fit, and function are enough. Price sounds maybe a bit high, but we haven't seen it yet.

I have very little remorse about money. Now, the girl I let slip away back in '83...That I feel bad about...

Looking forward to the pics!

Mauser George · 12-20-2009, 09:41 PM

Bob:

What two pieces of the rear sight are you referring to?

George

Jack Lawman · 12-20-2009, 10:15 PM

There are assembly numbers on arty sights that don't match the serial but are still correct.

Jack

lugerholsterrepair · 12-21-2009, 12:25 AM

Weasel, I collect Artillery pistols but never took an interest in the rear sites untill recently. I sold an Artillery to a good Friend and he discovers that the rear site is mismatched. I talked with George Anderson about this and he says many are. I have yet to find a good reason for this..the mismatched parts are not ones one could expect to take much abuse and break. A strange discovery after all these years!

I have to agree with Fred and Postino..if the rest of the pistol is what I am looking for... a small mismatched part or grip even is not enough to call off an acquisition. Withoug doubt one would prefer ALL the parts to match exactly but these fine pieces of history are becoming more scarce everyday. One must make decisions based on each piece....considering price, rarity, condition etc.

Jerry Burney

Vlim · 12-21-2009, 07:36 AM

The rear sight has some wear problems, but these are limited to the slider and the sight blade itself. The small notches in the blade, which keep the slider in place, will wear down over time, causing the slider to move during recoil.

Just consider the rear sight to be a 'wear part' and you'll feel less bad. It wouldn't bother me much. My lovely original 1917 arty with matching stock came with an erfurt proofed hold open and a messed up frame serial (in order to get it registered). I'm still very, very happy with it.

sheepherder · 12-21-2009, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlim

The rear sight has some wear problems, but these are limited to the slider and the sight blade itself. The small notches in the blade, which keep the slider in place, will wear down over time, causing the slider to move during recoil.

I have an old worn sight blade with 4 "fingers" missing...the sight slides freely over these missing pieces...I was told that was due to the shock of recoil, and that some owners wire/cable-tie their sight sliders in place so as not to break off these "fingers"...

Vlim · 12-21-2009, 09:03 AM

Correct, the cable tie is a cheap shooting fix that works well.

And it is always a head turner at the range when you pull out a gun that is held together by cable-ties

Weasel505 · 12-21-2009, 04:37 PM

I like youse guys' attitudes. I feel much better now. Not gonna sweat the sights. And it's very interesting that this seems to occur on other artys as well.

Found one other oddity. The take down lever is numbered on the curved front of the lever, not on the flat side. I've noticed this on other artys too. Any ideas?

Thanks again for the help.

Bob

alvin · 12-21-2009, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Lawman

There are assembly numbers on arty sights that don't match the serial but are still correct.

So, are the sight leaf and sight slide of this variation supposed to be numbered to the gun?

Copied Jack's picture here:

George Anderson · 12-21-2009, 07:50 PM

The sight slide should be numbered to the gun as that pictured is(31). The number on the base (61) is not normally matched to the serial number. The number on the top of the barrel (613) is related to the whole serial number. This only applies with fine tune sights and DWM's. There doesn't appear to be anything wrong with this sight in my opinion.

LUIS22 · 12-29-2009, 09:53 PM

dissapointed?? You just bought what is considered by many the most beautiful hand gun ever made...

mastermo · 04-08-2011, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlim

Correct, the cable tie is a cheap shooting fix that works well.

And it is always a head turner at the range when you pull out a gun that is held together by cable-ties

Quote:

Originally Posted by postino

I have an old worn sight blade with 4 "fingers" missing...the sight slides freely over these missing pieces...I was told that was due to the shock of recoil, and that some owners wire/cable-tie their sight sliders in place so as not to break off these "fingers"...

I like to share something that I believe works good. I tried the cable tie, velcro, hose clamp and then gave up.
I bought a original new Fine Tune Sight and installed and I was really worried the it was going to get all chewed up too if it continued to jumpe notches.
Then I studied it and studied it and....Bam! I had an idea and so far it is working great.
What I did was I shimed the tiny little spring (beside the checkerd button, right inside the spring cavity) to the tightest possible and that it would still let the slider slide, .020" shim did it. .030" locked up. You have to form the shim to half the circle at one end (with scissors) and straight at the other end. My .020" shim was .155" x .100".
Oh, I also straightened the straight spring, to relieve pressure, to half of the bent height.
Hope this helps others,

M

SIGP2101 · 04-18-2011, 03:30 PM

That #7 is font and size mismatch with the rest of the serial number 131

12-20-2009, 08:34 PM	#1
Weasel505 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 46 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Should I be dissapointed? Hi all, Haven't posted much lately cuz I have little to contribute, but I drop in every day. Now I got a question: Today I scored an LP.08, DWM 1917, at the Valley Forge (Pennsylvania, USA) gun show. The piece was touted to be all matching, and I paid a little over $2K. And it's beautiful, good blue and straw, good barrel, etc. So I get it home and look it over with the magnifying glass, and I find that the numbers on the two pieces of the rear sight do not match the rest of the gun. I know, caveat emptor. The dealer is known to be OK and I've bought from him before. I really don't think he deliberately deceived me. My question: HowPO-ed would YOU be if this happened to you? I started a thread some months ago about an artillery Luger with an unmarked hold-open. The consensus then was that screw it, why let a small flaw keep you from buying an otherwise fine firearm, an excellent addition to my collection? Well, I passed on that one, but now have this one. Did I screw up? Should I ask for my money back? I assume that, given the excellent quality of the gun, the sight must have been an armorer's repair job, back in the day. I'll have pics next weekend; daylight saving's time here in the US limits the good sunlight for photography (for us working stiffs). Please, opinions and ideas welcome. Thanks for reading, I really value the knowledge of the members of this site. Bob

12-20-2009, 10:15 PM	#6
Jack Lawman User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Near NYC Posts: 428 Thanks: 30 Thanked 64 Times in 37 Posts	Assembly Numbers There are assembly numbers on arty sights that don't match the serial but are still correct. Jack Attached Thumbnails Attached Images __________________ Why do you guys hate black circles so much?

12-21-2009, 07:36 AM	#8
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,032 Thanks: 1,018 Thanked 3,873 Times in 1,184 Posts	The rear sight has some wear problems, but these are limited to the slider and the sight blade itself. The small notches in the blade, which keep the slider in place, will wear down over time, causing the slider to move during recoil. Just consider the rear sight to be a 'wear part' and you'll feel less bad. It wouldn't bother me much. My lovely original 1917 arty with matching stock came with an erfurt proofed hold open and a messed up frame serial (in order to get it registered). I'm still very, very happy with it. Attached Thumbnails

12-21-2009, 04:37 PM	#11
Weasel505 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 46 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Wow, thanks for the response! I like youse guys' attitudes. I feel much better now. Not gonna sweat the sights. And it's very interesting that this seems to occur on other artys as well. Found one other oddity. The take down lever is numbered on the curved front of the lever, not on the flat side. I've noticed this on other artys too. Any ideas? Thanks again for the help. Bob

12-20-2009, 08:47 PM	#2
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Well, I bought a 1914 Erfurt LP.08 with a proofed but unnumbered safety, and was happy to get it. I don't think I fuss much about the sights. But it's all up to the individual. FN

12-20-2009, 08:52 PM	#3
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,414 Thanks: 224 Thanked 2,591 Times in 930 Posts	I have a 1914 LP 08 Erfurt with a numbered but unproofed trigger plate. How about that?

12-20-2009, 09:41 PM	#5
Mauser George User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: New York Posts: 88 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Bob: What two pieces of the rear sight are you referring to? George

12-21-2009, 12:25 AM	#7
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Weasel, I collect Artillery pistols but never took an interest in the rear sites untill recently. I sold an Artillery to a good Friend and he discovers that the rear site is mismatched. I talked with George Anderson about this and he says many are. I have yet to find a good reason for this..the mismatched parts are not ones one could expect to take much abuse and break. A strange discovery after all these years! I have to agree with Fred and Postino..if the rest of the pistol is what I am looking for... a small mismatched part or grip even is not enough to call off an acquisition. Withoug doubt one would prefer ALL the parts to match exactly but these fine pieces of history are becoming more scarce everyday. One must make decisions based on each piece....considering price, rarity, condition etc. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

12-21-2009, 09:03 AM	#10
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,032 Thanks: 1,018 Thanked 3,873 Times in 1,184 Posts	Correct, the cable tie is a cheap shooting fix that works well. And it is always a head turner at the range when you pull out a gun that is held together by cable-ties

12-21-2009, 07:50 PM	#13
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,769 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	The sight slide should be numbered to the gun as that pictured is(31). The number on the base (61) is not normally matched to the serial number. The number on the top of the barrel (613) is related to the whole serial number. This only applies with fine tune sights and DWM's. There doesn't appear to be anything wrong with this sight in my opinion.

12-29-2009, 09:53 PM	#14
LUIS22 User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 42 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	dissapointed?? You just bought what is considered by many the most beautiful hand gun ever made...

04-18-2011, 03:30 PM	#16
SIGP2101 User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 256 Thanks: 74 Thanked 67 Times in 32 Posts	That #7 is font and size mismatch with the rest of the serial number 131