1918 DWM with 2 matching mags- what do you think?

[RShaw]

Hi all,

An unusual find on a Dutch site for firearms- a matched 1918 DWM P08 with 2 matching mags for sale by a local collector- asking $1500 for
- P08 as described above
- Nr 1, 2 matching mags
- replica holster
- 300 rounds reloaded ammo

The gun and mags look "OK" from the photos- but I am questioning the magazines- the bases of both seem to be Aluminum; from the photo they are a matched pair- last 2 digits "23" - same as the last two digits on the visible sn's on the gun. Were original matched mags made with Aluminum bases? I thought magazines were made with wood (walnut?) bases.

Of course, I want to go see this gun before I do anything.... hopefully do a simple field strip....

What do you all think?
Thanks!!!

Please see attached photos

[DavidJayUden]

Hard to see details from those photos, but it appears to me that it is a police rework, with police-assigned magazines, modification for a sear safety and possibly magazine safety.
You are correct that in its earlier life as a 1918 Military pistol it would have had 2 matching wood bottomed magazines.
Better photos would help.
dju

[Pistol]

The mags issued to a 1918 DWM would have wood bottoms. These mags could be later police mags if the pistol was placed into police service following WWI. Does the pistol have a sear safety? From the photos I do not see a mag safety. Does it have any police marks on the front grip?

[RShaw]

Many thanks for your replies, all good questions!
The photos are a screen shot from the website where the gun is being advertised.

Police assigned magazines with matching sn's? Didn't know that was done in those days, thanks. Seems to me that if the gun itself is all matching, and since the mags came later, perhaps a reasonable price would be around $1100?

Your expert opinions?

I hope I can get better photos once I see the gun and mags. I'll also be able to answer the questions about the sear and mag safeties / police markings.

Thanks for your comments!!

[HerrKaiser]

Looks as if it has also been reblued from the pictures shown. Takedown lever and trigger are blued and not strawed. $1100 for that seems reasonable to me for that type of rig.

[DavidJayUden]

It appears that the gun has been modified for both the sear and magazine safety, but both are now gone.
Yes, police reworks used the gun's orig. serial number stamped on a later type magazine.
Hard to talk money when we don't understand the European market, sorry.
But as far as it being worth slightly less as a police re-work, while I tend to agree, many others here will vehemently disagree and point out the police Lugers are a collector's category all of their own.
If you get more photos please do close-ups of the left side above the mag. button and also the top. And watch for unit markings on the grip straps.
dju

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

Hard to see details from those photos, but it appears to me that it is a police rework

Definitely. You can see the rivet hole above the sear and the cut in the top of the sideplate.

IMO, being a police conversion does not diminish its value. I like the whole idea of a police Luger. The only Luger better would be a VoPo police Luger, with all the trimmings (sear safety, magazine safety, both intact and functioning and a pair of correctly numbered and stamped Police issued magazines).

[DonVoigt]

Robert,
None of us "know" the market/pricing in the NL.

The luger has been id'd correctly as a WWII pistol taken into police service with two police mags;
it is missing the sear safety that should be installed and operates through the slot on the side plate.

[RShaw]

Many thanks for the very valuable feedback!
I am in the process of selling another firearm to make room on my permit for this gun. Just had a buyer in who has agreed to the purchase... still need to do the paperwork..

So I'm really thinking about this gun- once i actually see it I will ask to take close up photos as recommended, as well as doing a field strip to see the inner parts.

Thanks again for your comments, will let you all know,

[mrerick]

A "WW-I DWM Luger" taken into police service.

If you're buying it as a "shooter", make sure that it functions properly and that it has a decent trigger before you buy it. There's a real art to resolving those issues if they are present.

A field strip will help you see condition. IIRC, on police conversions, the magazines got all the numeric digits of the pistol's serial number.

I'm not sure if an arsenal police conversion would reblue over the strawing, so this could have been reblued much later, pretty much eliminating collector interest. Someone with more familiarity with police conversions could confirm this. If the seer safety has been removed along with the magazine safety, it saw further rework after the police conversion in any case.

We do have Netherlands based members that may be able to help further with value if they chime in.

[RShaw]

Thanks Mrerick

[RShaw]

Finally saw the gun- the owner is an older gentleman who is selling off his guns- he's tired of the admin and paperwork needed for owning and using firearms here.

I did a field strip- the firing pin is fluted and unnumbered- likely a later replacement? Therefore an unmatched gun. The flute was introduced in 1935 or thereabouts? Clearly not original to this 1918.

Still, a nice gun in general. Still deliberating on whether I will go ahead.

I do see what he means with the admin and paperwork. Fees have gone up too.

Thanks to all for your feedback

[DavidJayUden]

The fluted firing pin is probably a partial result of the police re-work, along with the mags, safeties, etc.
Too bad about the fees and administration. Those tactics are something that we must be very vigilant against here too.
dju

[Edward Tinker]

Now, NOT reblued - it would be worth $1800-$2000 for a 2 matching mag police gun.

The firing pin would not bother me - a reblue or mismatched sideplate, sure.

[DavidJayUden]

Ed:
If it was reblued during the police conversion, surely that wouldn't effect the value much, particularly if having matching re-assigned police magazines seems to be a bonus.
I guess I'm just confused as to what parts of the police conversion process is beneficial to the gun's value, vs. being detrimental.
dju

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

Ed:
If it was reblued during the police conversion, surely that wouldn't effect the value much, particularly if having matching re-assigned police magazines seems to be a bonus.
I guess I'm just confused as to what parts of the police conversion process is beneficial to the gun's value, vs. being detrimental.
dju

Beneficial:
-in the condition and any additions it left Police re-work with
-unit markings
-presence of matching unit marked accessories, like tool and holster
Detriment-
-anything missing from above
-all the things that affect a "normal" luger, like condition, matching

If one compares the "value" of a "police" luger to an unmodified luger of the same vintage- the police pistol usually sells at a discount to the average guy; but to a police collecor there is another whole set of "rarieties" and "desirable mfgs and dates".

Never a simple answer - JMHO.

[RShaw]

Hi all,
Many thanks once again for ALL your comments and expertise.... I have learned a lot from this one thread.

I have finally decided not to buy this gun, mostly because of the added cost ($1500) and legwork (police visits, and the additional admin fees which have just gone up again...)

I have one open spot now on my permit; I am now waiting for that really special firewarm which may come along...