Swiss alphabet commercial

Mike B · 08-24-2011, 02:46 AM

Greetings,

I have had this Luger for a couple of years now and have wanted to share it with the forum members for sometime. Seems every time I sit down to make some sort of a presentation, something gets in the way. So now at 1:00 AM I have decided to show off one of my prize Lugers.
This is a seldom seen Swiss alphabet commercial with a 3 3/4 inch 7.65mm barrel, a grip safety and a "Cross in Sunburst" chamber marking. This Luger is in pristine condition. It is a bit unusual to have the grips and the hold open numbered on a commercial Luger, but they are numbered to the gun as is all the other numbers. According to Mr.Still in his book "Weimar Lugers", he states that these Swiss found in the "i" block are few reported and few manufactured. If you take a look at Dwights commercial data, you will see that this Luger is one of first in the "i" block. It is the same run as the very rare Abercrombie & Fitch model. Here are a few photos,
Mike

sheepherder · 08-24-2011, 07:39 AM

Very nice!!!

I'm curious as to the area of the grip frame where the thumb safety is...Is that a milled-out area, or just where there's no blue???

And I see it has the export "Germany" stamp...Does this indicate it was never delivered to the Swiss???

alanint · 08-24-2011, 08:49 AM

It appears milled out to me...

sheepherder · 08-24-2011, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

It appears milled out to me...

...Which would seem to indicate the safety was reversed...but why??? Is this an unsold Swiss that was changed to "German" safety specs for resale???

Ron Wood · 08-24-2011, 09:47 AM

It is milled, but not to remove any markings. It is just a bright polished area to indicate that the gun is on "safe". It is the same feature that is found on Model 1900 and 1906 Lugers. So although this gun was made in/around 1920 it is of the 1906 pattern.

Mike B · 08-24-2011, 09:53 AM

Here is a better picture of that area.

Lugerdoc · 08-24-2011, 10:38 AM

Ron et al, I suspect that DWM was using up their left over M1906 frames on this early post WW1 run, rather than modifing new PO8 frames. TH

alanint · 08-24-2011, 10:44 AM

This has always been a curious solution to my eyes. Why leave an area exposed they must have known would tarnish versus stamping or enameling a visual aid, as they did in later years?

FNorm · 08-24-2011, 11:19 AM

The Swiss carried it over too. Here's a 6/24 Bern.

MFC · 08-24-2011, 09:03 PM

Hi Mike,
Thanks for showing your M1906 Swiss Alphabet commercial. It’s one of my favorites. According to Still's Weimar Lugers it was made in 1921 at the beginning of the Alphabet commercial series which began with #2000i. Your Luger #2049i is a very scarce example with a factory original barrel.

The story of this very interesting Luger variation as told to me by Bob Simpson…

These lugers were made for the Swiss commercial market. Most of the Lugers in this series were sent to Switzerland without barrels. The Swiss installed Hammerli made barrels which included the Abercrombie & Fitch marked barrels. Very few had factory original barrels installed.

I own #2381i which I purchased from Simpson’s. The ‘Cross in Sunburst’ is in my avatar. It is the same configuration as Mike’s, but doesn’t have the ‘Germany’ export stamp.

Mike B · 08-24-2011, 10:11 PM

If my understanding is correct, the "GERMANY" stamp, whether on a firearm or a dinner plate, signifies that the item was being exported from Germany and bound for the United States or some other country. That being the case, it seems resonable to me to assume that this Luger was manufactured in Germany and had originally been destined for Switzerland. For reasons unknown and will probably never be known, it was diverted to the United States. My guess is that the order for the Stoeger Lugers was oversold, and this was an easy subsitute. This is only a guess, but as good as any.

MFC · 08-24-2011, 10:52 PM

Ben,
The example from your link at Simpson's has one of the more common Swiss replacement barrels.
This is another example with a factory original barrel...
http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...3750ac0192882f
It also has the 'Germany' export stamp.

Jerry · 06-04-2013, 08:25 AM

I have SN 2274i and was just trying to research it...This was a very helpful thread but need to read some more. I'll try and post some pictures later today.

Just looked at the barrel and it has c/n proofs only. Also, has no Germany stamp.

Jerry · 06-04-2013, 08:03 PM

Not as nice but still a Swiss...

lugersrkewl · 06-04-2013, 08:25 PM

any swiss is a good swiss in my book.
Nice pistols fellas , I coudnt be any more jealous

Jerry · 06-04-2013, 09:17 PM

Any thoughts on why no Germany on mine?

Mike B · 06-05-2013, 12:36 AM

Hi Jerry,
I am happy that you were able to gain a little insight about your Swiss. I still have the Swiss in this thread.
NO GERMANY. Probably because it never made it to an export firm. Likely sold somewhere in Europe.

Mike

Jerry · 06-05-2013, 06:18 AM

Thanks Mike!

Lugerdoc · 06-05-2013, 09:06 AM

Jerry et al, Speaking of books --- you might want to consider adding Fred Datig's "The Swiss Variations 1897-1947" (the definative book on Swiss lugers) to your library @$25 + $5 S&H. TH

Jerry · 06-05-2013, 10:47 AM

Tom...actually that book should be here today...Thanks!

08-24-2011, 02:46 AM	#1
Mike B Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 979 Thanks: 1 Thanked 271 Times in 99 Posts	Swiss alphabet commercial Greetings, I have had this Luger for a couple of years now and have wanted to share it with the forum members for sometime. Seems every time I sit down to make some sort of a presentation, something gets in the way. So now at 1:00 AM I have decided to show off one of my prize Lugers. This is a seldom seen Swiss alphabet commercial with a 3 3/4 inch 7.65mm barrel, a grip safety and a "Cross in Sunburst" chamber marking. This Luger is in pristine condition. It is a bit unusual to have the grips and the hold open numbered on a commercial Luger, but they are numbered to the gun as is all the other numbers. According to Mr.Still in his book "Weimar Lugers", he states that these Swiss found in the "i" block are few reported and few manufactured. If you take a look at Dwights commercial data, you will see that this Luger is one of first in the "i" block. It is the same run as the very rare Abercrombie & Fitch model. Here are a few photos, Mike Attached Thumbnails Attached Images

08-24-2011, 09:47 AM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,064 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	It is milled, but not to remove any markings. It is just a bright polished area to indicate that the gun is on "safe". It is the same feature that is found on Model 1900 and 1906 Lugers. So although this gun was made in/around 1920 it is of the 1906 pattern. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

08-24-2011, 09:53 AM	#6
Mike B Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 979 Thanks: 1 Thanked 271 Times in 99 Posts	Here is a better picture of that area. Attached Images

08-24-2011, 10:38 AM	#7
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Ron et al, I suspect that DWM was using up their left over M1906 frames on this early post WW1 run, rather than modifing new PO8 frames. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

08-24-2011, 11:19 AM	#9
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	The Swiss carried it over too. Here's a 6/24 Bern. Attached Thumbnails

08-24-2011, 07:39 AM	#2
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,181 Thanks: 1,396 Thanked 4,438 Times in 2,327 Posts	Very nice!!! I'm curious as to the area of the grip frame where the thumb safety is...Is that a milled-out area, or just where there's no blue??? And I see it has the export "Germany" stamp...Does this indicate it was never delivered to the Swiss??? __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

08-24-2011, 08:49 AM	#3
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	It appears milled out to me...

08-24-2011, 10:44 AM	#8
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	This has always been a curious solution to my eyes. Why leave an area exposed they must have known would tarnish versus stamping or enameling a visual aid, as they did in later years?

08-24-2011, 09:03 PM	#10
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Hi Mike, Thanks for showing your M1906 Swiss Alphabet commercial. It’s one of my favorites. According to Still's Weimar Lugers it was made in 1921 at the beginning of the Alphabet commercial series which began with #2000i. Your Luger #2049i is a very scarce example with a factory original barrel. The story of this very interesting Luger variation as told to me by Bob Simpson… These lugers were made for the Swiss commercial market. Most of the Lugers in this series were sent to Switzerland without barrels. The Swiss installed Hammerli made barrels which included the Abercrombie & Fitch marked barrels. Very few had factory original barrels installed. I own #2381i which I purchased from Simpson’s. The ‘Cross in Sunburst’ is in my avatar. It is the same configuration as Mike’s, but doesn’t have the ‘Germany’ export stamp. __________________ Mike C.

08-24-2011, 10:11 PM	#11
Mike B Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 979 Thanks: 1 Thanked 271 Times in 99 Posts	If my understanding is correct, the "GERMANY" stamp, whether on a firearm or a dinner plate, signifies that the item was being exported from Germany and bound for the United States or some other country. That being the case, it seems resonable to me to assume that this Luger was manufactured in Germany and had originally been destined for Switzerland. For reasons unknown and will probably never be known, it was diverted to the United States. My guess is that the order for the Stoeger Lugers was oversold, and this was an easy subsitute. This is only a guess, but as good as any.

08-24-2011, 10:52 PM	#12
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Ben, The example from your link at Simpson's has one of the more common Swiss replacement barrels. This is another example with a factory original barrel... http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...3750ac0192882f It also has the 'Germany' export stamp. __________________ Mike C.

06-04-2013, 08:25 AM	#13
Jerry Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2003 Location: Florida Posts: 126 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts	I have SN 2274i and was just trying to research it...This was a very helpful thread but need to read some more. I'll try and post some pictures later today. Just looked at the barrel and it has c/n proofs only. Also, has no Germany stamp. __________________ Jerry

06-04-2013, 08:03 PM	#14
Jerry Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2003 Location: Florida Posts: 126 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts	Not as nice but still a Swiss... Attached Thumbnails __________________ Jerry

06-04-2013, 08:25 PM	#15
lugersrkewl Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Ussr Posts: 425 Thanks: 198 Thanked 75 Times in 58 Posts	any swiss is a good swiss in my book. Nice pistols fellas , I coudnt be any more jealous

06-04-2013, 09:17 PM	#16
Jerry Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2003 Location: Florida Posts: 126 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts	Any thoughts on why no Germany on mine? __________________ Jerry

06-05-2013, 12:36 AM	#17
Mike B Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 979 Thanks: 1 Thanked 271 Times in 99 Posts	Hi Jerry, I am happy that you were able to gain a little insight about your Swiss. I still have the Swiss in this thread. NO GERMANY. Probably because it never made it to an export firm. Likely sold somewhere in Europe. Mike

06-05-2013, 06:18 AM	#18
Jerry Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2003 Location: Florida Posts: 126 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts	Thanks Mike! __________________ Jerry

06-05-2013, 09:06 AM	#19
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Jerry et al, Speaking of books --- you might want to consider adding Fred Datig's "The Swiss Variations 1897-1947" (the definative book on Swiss lugers) to your library @$25 + $5 S&H. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

06-05-2013, 10:47 AM	#20
Jerry Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2003 Location: Florida Posts: 126 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts	Tom...actually that book should be here today...Thanks! __________________ Jerry

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