06 Waffenfabrik Bern

StarOfTheWest · 01-10-2008, 05:26 PM

Serial 22099.

This piece looks brand new.
Only a few little wear spots from cycling the action, and tearing it down to clean, it appears.

It has the Swiss cross in all the right places on the gun, a brown plastic magazine base with a small cross in it, and a mark of Privatization under the front serial on the lower frame.

Grip safety, unmarked safety switch, except for a spot in the white designating safe.

An inspector's mark(?) of "2" appears faintly above the trigger on the right side.

Perfect grips with a wide plain border, and not even a powder mark on the chamber face.

I don't know what the +/m in the oval means, on the left side above the takedown.

Perhaps one of our Swiss experts can tell me please?

Mauser720 · 01-10-2008, 08:08 PM

Well, the oval mark with the Swiss Cross and the letter "M" below it is the control punch or acceptance mark used by the chief inspector, Colonel Muhlemann.

Beautiful pistol. Thank you for sharing.

Mauser720 - Ron

Ron Wood · 01-10-2008, 08:25 PM

Thank you for properly identifying this lovely pistol as "06 Waffenfabrik Bern" rather than the incorrect "24 Bern" designation that continues to be perpetuated, even by those who know better. It is interesting to see that it was "privatized" only 10 years after it was made. Probably accompanied its owner into retirement when he mustered out and was permitted to keep his pistol. It is indeed a fine piece. The proper magazine for this gun would be the wooden bottom magazine with the metal disk inserts. You gots good stuff!

StarOfTheWest · 01-10-2008, 08:31 PM

Thank you both for posting.

I was afraid that mag wasn't right.

Guess I will have to find a correct one in my travels someday.

wlyon · 01-10-2008, 09:49 PM

Ron
I believe the correct mag for this is the plain wood bottom with no disk inserts. The wood bottom should have a ridge on it instead of rounded. Very nice Swiss. Bill

Pete Ebbink · 01-10-2008, 09:52 PM

Anna,

Very nice Swiss gun !

BTW...the magazine you have is for the brown-colored variety of the M1929 Swiss Bern Luger. Those are worth $ 125-150 in good condition.

If you scroll down to the bottom of the discussions in the Swiss section (on the first page), you will see a posting I did back in 5-3-2007 on "numbered" wooden magazines for the '24 Bern Luger.

You will see the characteristics of what the bottom of the wood looks like.

The 3 wood Bern magazines I posted photos of are some in my collection that have had 2-digits of their stamped in the wood.

This is not common and may have been done later during arsenal reworks or by an owner...

BTW...the one magazine with "66" can be turned upside-down and it would be right for your gun with its serial number of "99" on the small parts...just joking of course.

Wood magazines for the '24 Bern Luger seem to run over $ 200 if you can find them for sale.

Ron Wood · 01-10-2008, 10:29 PM

Aaarrrgh!

Of course you are correct Bill. Another fine example of my attacking the keyboard before engaging my brain. I think I shall go off in a corner and pout.

MFC · 01-10-2008, 10:44 PM

Anna and Ron say it is an 06 Waffenfabrik Bern.
Pete calls it a '24 Bern, and Ron stated that others call it a 24 Swiss.
So... What's the deal.

Anna, Very nice Luger no matter what you call it.
Mike C.

Ron Wood · 01-10-2008, 11:04 PM

Mike,
I corrected my post to refer to the misnomer as '24 Bern (but some do call it "24 Swiss"). Actual production of the "1906 Waffenfabrik Bern" or "'06 W+F" began in 1918. Faulty information provided to one of the early giants in Luger literature, Fred Datig, resulted in the 1924 date. He later acknowledged that the date was incorrect.
The 1906 designation denotes the configuration of the Luger, which conforms to the 1906 DWM pattern except for the bordered grips. The serial numbering picks up with #15216, which immediately follows the DWM production.

MFC · 01-10-2008, 11:31 PM

Ron,
Thanks for the clarification. I don't mean to hijack Anna's thread... but did DWM/BKIW also restart it's production at #15216 ?
Mike C.

Ron Wood · 01-10-2008, 11:41 PM

No, the Swiss Military Lugers were a seperate contract series for DWM. You will find American Eagle and Commercial Lugers with the same serial numbers as the Swiss Military.

MFC · 01-11-2008, 12:00 AM

Ron,
Thank you Sir. Now I get it.
Mike C.

melh · 02-22-2008, 10:19 PM

Hello A couple of my Luger books say that the Bern lugers were salt blued and a had a very dull finish. I recently looked at one that looked "as new" with a beautiful finish. If my book is correct then I am looking at a rework/reblue. How would yoou class the finish on your very nice piece? Thanks

A.Mifsin · 02-23-2008, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ron Wood
No, the Swiss Military Lugers were a seperate contract series for DWM. You will find American Eagle and Commercial Lugers with the same serial numbers as the Swiss Military.

Ron, Am I understanding correctly that there is the possibility of having two Lugers with the same serial number even with a suffix number, because until know I never thought of such thing could ever be.
Alfred

RGMCE · 07-23-2008, 12:43 PM

To melh : The dull finish you refer to is commonly found on the 06/29 model, which was a exercise in cost reduction. The earlier 06/'24'{mis-labeled} was rust blued or appears to be so.. To A. Mifsin : Ron's correct, two identical serial numbered guns could occur. See V. Bobba's 'Parabellum, A Technical History of Swiss Lugers' plus this and other gunboard forums. Hope this helps. Dick McE.

A.Mifsin · 07-24-2008, 01:30 AM

Thanks RGMCE.

Alf

01-10-2008, 08:08 PM	#2
Mauser720 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 535 Thanks: 18 Thanked 49 Times in 33 Posts	Well, the oval mark with the Swiss Cross and the letter "M" below it is the control punch or acceptance mark used by the chief inspector, Colonel Muhlemann. Beautiful pistol. Thank you for sharing. Mauser720 - Ron __________________ Mauser720 - Ron "Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it."

01-10-2008, 08:25 PM	#3
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	Thank you for properly identifying this lovely pistol as "06 Waffenfabrik Bern" rather than the incorrect "24 Bern" designation that continues to be perpetuated, even by those who know better. It is interesting to see that it was "privatized" only 10 years after it was made. Probably accompanied its owner into retirement when he mustered out and was permitted to keep his pistol. It is indeed a fine piece. The proper magazine for this gun would be the wooden bottom magazine with the metal disk inserts. You gots good stuff! __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-10-2008, 08:31 PM	#4
StarOfTheWest User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: East Texas, CSA Posts: 208 Thanks: 81 Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts	Thank you both for posting. I was afraid that mag wasn't right. Guess I will have to find a correct one in my travels someday. __________________ Sorry, I take that back. I have no problem with the horse you rode in on.

01-10-2008, 09:49 PM	#5
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,614 Thanks: 3,140 Thanked 2,519 Times in 939 Posts	Ron I believe the correct mag for this is the plain wood bottom with no disk inserts. The wood bottom should have a ridge on it instead of rounded. Very nice Swiss. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

01-10-2008, 10:29 PM	#7
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	Aaarrrgh! Of course you are correct Bill. Another fine example of my attacking the keyboard before engaging my brain. I think I shall go off in a corner and pout. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-10-2008, 05:26 PM	#1
StarOfTheWest User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: East Texas, CSA Posts: 208 Thanks: 81 Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts	06 Waffenfabrik Bern Serial 22099. This piece looks brand new. Only a few little wear spots from cycling the action, and tearing it down to clean, it appears. It has the Swiss cross in all the right places on the gun, a brown plastic magazine base with a small cross in it, and a mark of Privatization under the front serial on the lower frame. Grip safety, unmarked safety switch, except for a spot in the white designating safe. An inspector's mark(?) of "2" appears faintly above the trigger on the right side. Perfect grips with a wide plain border, and not even a powder mark on the chamber face. I don't know what the +/m in the oval means, on the left side above the takedown. Perhaps one of our Swiss experts can tell me please? __________________ Sorry, I take that back. I have no problem with the horse you rode in on.

01-10-2008, 09:52 PM	#6
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Anna, Very nice Swiss gun ! BTW...the magazine you have is for the brown-colored variety of the M1929 Swiss Bern Luger. Those are worth $ 125-150 in good condition. If you scroll down to the bottom of the discussions in the Swiss section (on the first page), you will see a posting I did back in 5-3-2007 on "numbered" wooden magazines for the '24 Bern Luger. You will see the characteristics of what the bottom of the wood looks like. The 3 wood Bern magazines I posted photos of are some in my collection that have had 2-digits of their stamped in the wood. This is not common and may have been done later during arsenal reworks or by an owner... BTW...the one magazine with "66" can be turned upside-down and it would be right for your gun with its serial number of "99" on the small parts...just joking of course. Wood magazines for the '24 Bern Luger seem to run over $ 200 if you can find them for sale.

01-10-2008, 10:44 PM	#8
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Anna and Ron say it is an 06 Waffenfabrik Bern. Pete calls it a '24 Bern, and Ron stated that others call it a 24 Swiss. So... What's the deal. Anna, Very nice Luger no matter what you call it. Mike C. __________________ Mike C.

01-10-2008, 11:04 PM	#9
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	Mike, I corrected my post to refer to the misnomer as '24 Bern (but some do call it "24 Swiss"). Actual production of the "1906 Waffenfabrik Bern" or "'06 W+F" began in 1918. Faulty information provided to one of the early giants in Luger literature, Fred Datig, resulted in the 1924 date. He later acknowledged that the date was incorrect. The 1906 designation denotes the configuration of the Luger, which conforms to the 1906 DWM pattern except for the bordered grips. The serial numbering picks up with #15216, which immediately follows the DWM production. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-10-2008, 11:31 PM	#10
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Ron, Thanks for the clarification. I don't mean to hijack Anna's thread... but did DWM/BKIW also restart it's production at #15216 ? Mike C. __________________ Mike C.

01-10-2008, 11:41 PM	#11
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	No, the Swiss Military Lugers were a seperate contract series for DWM. You will find American Eagle and Commercial Lugers with the same serial numbers as the Swiss Military. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-11-2008, 12:00 AM	#12
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Ron, Thank you Sir. Now I get it. Mike C. __________________ Mike C.

02-22-2008, 10:19 PM	#13
melh User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hello A couple of my Luger books say that the Bern lugers were salt blued and a had a very dull finish. I recently looked at one that looked "as new" with a beautiful finish. If my book is correct then I am looking at a rework/reblue. How would yoou class the finish on your very nice piece? Thanks

07-23-2008, 12:43 PM	#15
RGMCE User Join Date: May 2008 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 30 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	To melh : The dull finish you refer to is commonly found on the 06/29 model, which was a exercise in cost reduction. The earlier 06/'24'{mis-labeled} was rust blued or appears to be so.. To A. Mifsin : Ron's correct, two identical serial numbered guns could occur. See V. Bobba's 'Parabellum, A Technical History of Swiss Lugers' plus this and other gunboard forums. Hope this helps. Dick McE.

07-24-2008, 01:30 AM	#16
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	Thanks RGMCE. Alf __________________ I prefer a Luger