Free up relic luger - Page 2

sheepherder · 03-05-2010, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norme

Hi Rich, me again. I can't believe you can't open the action of your 1937 S/42 when it's on safe. Here's a photo of mine. Regards, Norm

None of my three will, Norme. Very strange...

OK! I see what our problem is...We're comparing apples & orangutans...

I was trying to pull back the toggle with the magazine in, the safety on, and the lockwork in the fired position...

If I try it with the lockwork in the ready-to-fire position, the toggle(s) will pull up...

sheepherder · 03-06-2010, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norme

Hi, If you can remove the bakelite grip, you could try the thermal expansion method to break things free. Chill the gun in the freezer, then drop in a pot of boiling water. After a few minutes, remove, shake out as much water as you can, then spray liberally with WD40. I have done this with old black powder guns with some success. Good luck! Norm

I have just re-read this, and it sounds like a good idea...but I would suggest boiling first, then freezing...

Heat expands...cold contracts...The parts might contract enough to slide loose...

Also, since you have drilled mag already, it might be good to cut/chisel away what is left of thin sheetmetal in mag, remove cartridges, and peen down mag until it collapses and you can pull it out...

Finding an old beatup junk mag to display in it should not be too big a problem...

02tobbe · 03-07-2010, 04:50 PM

I have now managed to get the safety to the off position, still trying to get the forward part to move...

Vlim · 03-07-2010, 07:32 PM

If you manually open the toggle, the receiver will be pulled backwards slightly. So when freeing up the toggle, it is important to remember that the receiver must be freed up at the same time.

On the other hand, if you manage to shift the receiver backwards, you will eventually work the toggle as well, as it will hit the frame ramps.

About the safety types: have to play with them some more

Death-Ace · 03-07-2010, 08:55 PM

Thought the safety was used partly to do that...hey, I think I see a little bluing left!

02tobbe · 03-09-2010, 04:53 PM

Well I have now gotten the magazine out, the upper most round was still live.

Still can´t get the thing to move though, seems to be the receiver that is stuck to the frame, gonna try that heating and chilling thing next and see if it helps.

Vlim · 03-09-2010, 07:12 PM

If there is no round in the chamber my old approach may work:

I took a cylinder head bolt from a Mercedes-Benz S-Class (well, it seemed appropriate in a weird kind of way), placed it in the barrel. Put the gun in a vise and whacked the hell out of it with a hammer, hitting the exposed bolt head.

With a round still in the chamber, this method would not be advisable, unless firing cylinder head bolts through the workshop is your thing

Vlim · 03-10-2010, 11:17 AM

Slightly OT, but Postino is correct. The new safety will only allow you to unload the pistol with the safety applied when the firing pin is under tension. When the firing pin is in the fired position (the way I store my pistols), the toggle cannot be opened with the safety applied.

The simple reason is that the firing pin extension cannot clear the sear bar while moving backwards, as the sear bar is locked in place by the safety. Which, of course, is the way the safety is supposed to work. With the safety applied and the gun c*cked, it is possible to open the toggle as the firing pin extension does not have to clear the sear.

A clever little trick that cost DWM a fortune and helped Georg Luger to get kicked out of the company the minute they had the chance to do so

02tobbe · 03-10-2010, 03:54 PM

Some more small steps forward: Using the method Vlim(Thank you!) suggested I have now gotten the forward link with the breechblock to move freely, at least a bit.

How far is it supposed to move before the receiver also needs to move backwards?

FNorm · 03-10-2010, 06:16 PM

If I understand you correctly: The receiver moves back about a quarter of an inch, before the toggle starts to move up on the ears.

FN

02tobbe · 03-12-2010, 04:08 AM

I think I ment the other way: If I pull the toggle, the forward link with the breechblock starts to move but then stops when the opening is about 1cm, it sounds like it hits something. I think it´s when the recevier is supposed to move back, but I´m not sure.

I have tried heating the gun and dropping it in the snow but the receiver is still stuck solid to the frame.

FNorm · 03-12-2010, 08:57 AM

Tested one of mine pulling on the toggles. Yeah, that's about right. Breech opens about 1cm, then the upper starts back.

FN

02tobbe · 03-12-2010, 10:13 AM

Ok, thanks, then I know I have to keep trying to get the receiver free.

Vlim · 03-12-2010, 01:46 PM

If you can get the takedown lever going, you can tap off the receiver from the back, moving it forwards.

02tobbe · 03-19-2010, 07:19 AM

Still no success in getting the barrel section and receiver to separate ;( I have been soaking it with severeal cans of WD40 and pounding on it but no go. I have even tried a special rust solvent that cools down the rust to -40 C to crack the rust and then penetrate it with the rust solvent, but that didn´t work either.

I guess that the small tolerances of the luger makes it hard for the solvent to penetrate enough to get to the rust.

alanint · 03-19-2010, 07:33 AM

It seems like this old war horse has been taking a beating. If it were mine, I would display it as is. There is no reason to get the toggle to work, since it will never be shot.

Lugerdoc · 03-20-2010, 10:36 AM

Norme, The PO8s with a relieved safety bar will only open with the safety on, if the FP is cocked. If FP forward, the safety must be off for the toggle to come all the way back. In this case of a broken safety lever, I would attempt to remove the safety lever from the frame and lower the safety bar. I can sell you an unbroken pitted safety lever cheap. I also have a simi;ar condition (worn, but not chipped or cracked) matching original right BW grip available. TH

Norme · 03-20-2010, 11:15 AM

Hi Tom, The relic in question isn't mine, it belongs to a gentleman named Torbjorn (see 1st post). Regards, Norm

Went Blakely · 04-10-2010, 06:54 AM

Absolutely love relics and this one is just fantastic. IMHO, i would just get the live rounds out, throw a protective coating of sealant or lacquer on it, and on the wall in a frame it would go. Looks great and there is still plenty of it left. It's probably both brittle, and has been condition-fused together from all the weathering. I would just leave it but thats me

highwayman · 04-11-2010, 05:48 PM

That's a cool relic indeed. I live in South Dakota and a friend of mine had found a Colt revolver from the late 1800's by a creek bed after a rain. It was in similar condition to this one that you have. Good luck on getting it apart. Send us pics if you do!

03-20-2010, 10:36 AM	#37
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Norme, The PO8s with a relieved safety bar will only open with the safety on, if the FP is cocked. If FP forward, the safety must be off for the toggle to come all the way back. In this case of a broken safety lever, I would attempt to remove the safety lever from the frame and lower the safety bar. I can sell you an unbroken pitted safety lever cheap. I also have a simi;ar condition (worn, but not chipped or cracked) matching original right BW grip available. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

04-10-2010, 06:54 AM	#39
Went Blakely User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 231 Thanks: 4 Thanked 8 Times in 6 Posts	Absolutely love relics and this one is just fantastic. IMHO, i would just get the live rounds out, throw a protective coating of sealant or lacquer on it, and on the wall in a frame it would go. Looks great and there is still plenty of it left. It's probably both brittle, and has been condition-fused together from all the weathering. I would just leave it but thats me __________________ Went Blakely

03-07-2010, 04:50 PM	#23
02tobbe User Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I have now managed to get the safety to the off position, still trying to get the forward part to move...

03-07-2010, 07:32 PM	#24
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,032 Thanks: 1,018 Thanked 3,873 Times in 1,184 Posts	If you manually open the toggle, the receiver will be pulled backwards slightly. So when freeing up the toggle, it is important to remember that the receiver must be freed up at the same time. On the other hand, if you manage to shift the receiver backwards, you will eventually work the toggle as well, as it will hit the frame ramps. About the safety types: have to play with them some more

03-07-2010, 08:55 PM	#25
Death-Ace User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 25 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thought the safety was used partly to do that...hey, I think I see a little bluing left!

03-09-2010, 04:53 PM	#26
02tobbe User Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Well I have now gotten the magazine out, the upper most round was still live. Still can´t get the thing to move though, seems to be the receiver that is stuck to the frame, gonna try that heating and chilling thing next and see if it helps.

03-09-2010, 07:12 PM	#27
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,032 Thanks: 1,018 Thanked 3,873 Times in 1,184 Posts	If there is no round in the chamber my old approach may work: I took a cylinder head bolt from a Mercedes-Benz S-Class (well, it seemed appropriate in a weird kind of way), placed it in the barrel. Put the gun in a vise and whacked the hell out of it with a hammer, hitting the exposed bolt head. With a round still in the chamber, this method would not be advisable, unless firing cylinder head bolts through the workshop is your thing

03-10-2010, 11:17 AM	#28
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,032 Thanks: 1,018 Thanked 3,873 Times in 1,184 Posts	Slightly OT, but Postino is correct. The new safety will only allow you to unload the pistol with the safety applied when the firing pin is under tension. When the firing pin is in the fired position (the way I store my pistols), the toggle cannot be opened with the safety applied. The simple reason is that the firing pin extension cannot clear the sear bar while moving backwards, as the sear bar is locked in place by the safety. Which, of course, is the way the safety is supposed to work. With the safety applied and the gun c*cked, it is possible to open the toggle as the firing pin extension does not have to clear the sear. A clever little trick that cost DWM a fortune and helped Georg Luger to get kicked out of the company the minute they had the chance to do so

03-10-2010, 03:54 PM	#29
02tobbe User Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Some more small steps forward: Using the method Vlim(Thank you!) suggested I have now gotten the forward link with the breechblock to move freely, at least a bit. How far is it supposed to move before the receiver also needs to move backwards?

03-10-2010, 06:16 PM	#30
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	If I understand you correctly: The receiver moves back about a quarter of an inch, before the toggle starts to move up on the ears. FN

03-12-2010, 04:08 AM	#31
02tobbe User Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I think I ment the other way: If I pull the toggle, the forward link with the breechblock starts to move but then stops when the opening is about 1cm, it sounds like it hits something. I think it´s when the recevier is supposed to move back, but I´m not sure. I have tried heating the gun and dropping it in the snow but the receiver is still stuck solid to the frame.

03-12-2010, 08:57 AM	#32
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Tested one of mine pulling on the toggles. Yeah, that's about right. Breech opens about 1cm, then the upper starts back. FN

03-12-2010, 10:13 AM	#33
02tobbe User Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ok, thanks, then I know I have to keep trying to get the receiver free.

03-12-2010, 01:46 PM	#34
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,032 Thanks: 1,018 Thanked 3,873 Times in 1,184 Posts	If you can get the takedown lever going, you can tap off the receiver from the back, moving it forwards.

03-19-2010, 07:19 AM	#35
02tobbe User Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Still no success in getting the barrel section and receiver to separate ;( I have been soaking it with severeal cans of WD40 and pounding on it but no go. I have even tried a special rust solvent that cools down the rust to -40 C to crack the rust and then penetrate it with the rust solvent, but that didn´t work either. I guess that the small tolerances of the luger makes it hard for the solvent to penetrate enough to get to the rust.

03-19-2010, 07:33 AM	#36
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	It seems like this old war horse has been taking a beating. If it were mine, I would display it as is. There is no reason to get the toggle to work, since it will never be shot.

03-20-2010, 11:15 AM	#38
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,414 Thanks: 224 Thanked 2,591 Times in 930 Posts	Hi Tom, The relic in question isn't mine, it belongs to a gentleman named Torbjorn (see 1st post). Regards, Norm

04-11-2010, 05:48 PM	#40
highwayman User Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Sioux Falls SD Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	That's a cool relic indeed. I live in South Dakota and a friend of mine had found a Colt revolver from the late 1800's by a creek bed after a rain. It was in similar condition to this one that you have. Good luck on getting it apart. Send us pics if you do!