Bird of Prey Luger

Thor · 08-13-2013, 04:05 PM

A while back, I was doing a restoration on a 1915 DWM Police Luger. I made a few BEFORE pictures of the Luger in its condition when it arrived. I then did a DURING restoration picture after I stripped the bluing off. I was astounded to see how the original bluing had CLOAKED or hidden the existing pitting under the bluing, just like a Klingon Bird of Prey cloaks itself to hid from its enemies. Here are some pictures of the Luger BEFORE, DURING and AFTER restoration.

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lugerholsterrepair · 08-13-2013, 04:26 PM

Ted, Fascinating! Did you do any metal work after the discovery of what's underneath or simply re blue it?

Wonderful transformation as always.

Thor · 08-13-2013, 04:43 PM

Believe it or not Jerry, that Luger was Tom Armstrong's. A great man and friend. I clean them up as best I can prior to reblue. After all, we dont want the pitting to continue. Remember this old P.38, you had to fix it before you blued it.

lugerholsterrepair · 08-13-2013, 05:11 PM

Ted, Yes of cours but what I was getting at is the luger looks good with the original blue..at least the cloaking device was on! Then you show it with the old blue off. and the imperfections are quite evident. Then..did you simply re blue it and the imperfections disappeared again under the new blue without metal work such as polishing?

Again..a stunning transformation on the P-38 And Tom 's passing was a great loss to many of us..Truly a great man and a good Friend!

Thor · 08-13-2013, 05:20 PM

No Jerry, I did NOT simply reblue, I never do that. Part of my job is getting the metal to look as good as possible and like it did at the factory before it was blued the first time. I think what I was trying to say was the are almost always worse that you think when you look at them with the bluing on them, it is deceptive. See the DURING picture of the P.38, all the damage is fixed before the bluing starts, same with the above Luger. I guess I should have posted a DURING picture on the Luger too so you could see therepairs prior to bluing. Sorry for the confusion.

Don M · 08-13-2013, 08:16 PM

Ted, a truly masterful job! I hope you were able to requote the job after stripping!!

kzullick · 08-13-2013, 08:39 PM

Absolutely stunning work!

skeeter4206 · 08-13-2013, 09:39 PM

I am curious! Looking at the P.38 before and just before picture. The first one with the pitting, how do you actually go about removing the pitting so visible pits are shown. Are there cases where you have had to add metal back due to the depths of the pitting, which were removed by so sort of mechanical means, and leaving to little base metal left?

What I'm kind of getting at is have you have to some welding of some sort to restore the base metal to a proper thickness? and if so, how did the part being welded on hold up after applying that amount of heat, which would be as little as possible. But even the smallest amount of heat by welding can be a bit much for such a small part.

John Sabato · 08-13-2013, 10:58 PM

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Ted's answer is a trade secret. He is a highly sought after master craftsman. I think I have known him since before he blued his first Luger.

skeeter4206 · 08-13-2013, 11:52 PM

he definitely has a great skill in the art of refinishing the old relics. Looking at that P.38 with the original pitting and then the just before bluing picture. That frame looks straight as can be and the markings look like they did from the get go. Definitely an art to it and he has mastered it.

Thor, I seen some of the other guns you have posted and the are all very nicely done. I wouldn't give out trade secrets either. I was just curious about the welding, if there was any. I do a great deal of welding inspections, usually on coded tanks, vessels or other types of equipment. so I just pondered that thought of welding on a luger or old gun like these. If it was even possible and still hold up in its integrity.

Curly1 · 08-14-2013, 12:00 AM

Exceptional work.

alvin · 08-14-2013, 07:34 AM

Have seen a few Gale Morgan restored guns, I would say this end result is at his skill level!

alvin · 08-14-2013, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skeeter4206

I do a great deal of welding inspections, usually on coded tanks, vessels or other types of equipment.

I bought a set of DVD "Tank Overhual" showing collectors restoring tanks. Amazing DVD! But I bet people who can restore tanks cannot restore Lugers, and people who can restore Lugers cannot restore tanks

Very different jobs, at least, the tools used are very different --

I don't know how Thor performed welding. Saw some micro-welding equipment in workshop. They perform welding work under microscopes. The heat input is so small, even area less than 1m/m away is not affected.

cirelaw · 08-14-2013, 08:16 AM

Here is Teds site~~~~~http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/

Olle · 08-14-2013, 09:19 AM

Bluing can sure hide a lot of crap. I have polished several guns that looked like they just had some high spot wear, but the amount of small pits and scratches I found after stripping almost made me regret that I ever started...

Fortunately, some minor imperfections will be hidden again after bluing, but you can't get away with much if the rest of the gun is perfect.

Thor · 08-14-2013, 12:08 PM

Sometimes welding is required, sometimes not. HUB or Neil Keller of Kustom Ballistics does great low temp welding. He just sent me an early AE Luger that someone had cut a hole in the trigger frame which he fixed. I will now rust blue over the repair. Part of my advantage is I have talents to draw from on my restorations, Hugh, Jerry,Neil, Les, Tom H, Brian Powley, GT all add to the team effort on these great Lugers. I am so fortune and blessed to know these skilled people. John S and John D help me on my website and computer issues, what a thrill to have these kind people help me.

Patronen · 08-14-2013, 03:08 PM

Thor · 08-14-2013, 04:48 PM

Quite excellent Dave, outstanding!

08-13-2013, 04:05 PM	#1
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Bird of Prey Luger A while back, I was doing a restoration on a 1915 DWM Police Luger. I made a few BEFORE pictures of the Luger in its condition when it arrived. I then did a DURING restoration picture after I stripped the bluing off. I was astounded to see how the original bluing had CLOAKED or hidden the existing pitting under the bluing, just like a Klingon Bird of Prey cloaks itself to hid from its enemies. Here are some pictures of the Luger BEFORE, DURING and AFTER restoration. \| __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

08-13-2013, 04:26 PM	#2
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,763 Thanks: 4,865 Thanked 3,105 Times in 1,429 Posts	Ted, Fascinating! Did you do any metal work after the discovery of what's underneath or simply re blue it? Wonderful transformation as always. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

08-13-2013, 04:43 PM	#3
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Believe it or not Jerry, that Luger was Tom Armstrong's. A great man and friend. I clean them up as best I can prior to reblue. After all, we dont want the pitting to continue. Remember this old P.38, you had to fix it before you blued it. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

08-13-2013, 05:11 PM	#4
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,763 Thanks: 4,865 Thanked 3,105 Times in 1,429 Posts	Ted, Yes of cours but what I was getting at is the luger looks good with the original blue..at least the cloaking device was on! Then you show it with the old blue off. and the imperfections are quite evident. Then..did you simply re blue it and the imperfections disappeared again under the new blue without metal work such as polishing? Again..a stunning transformation on the P-38 And Tom 's passing was a great loss to many of us..Truly a great man and a good Friend! __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

08-13-2013, 05:20 PM	#5
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	No Jerry, I did NOT simply reblue, I never do that. Part of my job is getting the metal to look as good as possible and like it did at the factory before it was blued the first time. I think what I was trying to say was the are almost always worse that you think when you look at them with the bluing on them, it is deceptive. See the DURING picture of the P.38, all the damage is fixed before the bluing starts, same with the above Luger. I guess I should have posted a DURING picture on the Luger too so you could see therepairs prior to bluing. Sorry for the confusion. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

08-13-2013, 08:16 PM	#6
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Ted, a truly masterful job! I hope you were able to requote the job after stripping!! __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

08-13-2013, 08:39 PM	#7
kzullick Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: East Berwick, Pennsylvania Posts: 227 Thanks: 614 Thanked 100 Times in 81 Posts	Absolutely stunning work!

08-13-2013, 09:39 PM	#8
skeeter4206 User Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Augusta, GA Posts: 448 Thanks: 52 Thanked 88 Times in 49 Posts	I am curious! Looking at the P.38 before and just before picture. The first one with the pitting, how do you actually go about removing the pitting so visible pits are shown. Are there cases where you have had to add metal back due to the depths of the pitting, which were removed by so sort of mechanical means, and leaving to little base metal left? What I'm kind of getting at is have you have to some welding of some sort to restore the base metal to a proper thickness? and if so, how did the part being welded on hold up after applying that amount of heat, which would be as little as possible. But even the smallest amount of heat by welding can be a bit much for such a small part.

08-13-2013, 10:58 PM	#9
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Ted's answer is a trade secret. He is a highly sought after master craftsman. I think I have known him since before he blued his first Luger. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-13-2013, 11:52 PM	#10
skeeter4206 User Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Augusta, GA Posts: 448 Thanks: 52 Thanked 88 Times in 49 Posts	he definitely has a great skill in the art of refinishing the old relics. Looking at that P.38 with the original pitting and then the just before bluing picture. That frame looks straight as can be and the markings look like they did from the get go. Definitely an art to it and he has mastered it. Thor, I seen some of the other guns you have posted and the are all very nicely done. I wouldn't give out trade secrets either. I was just curious about the welding, if there was any. I do a great deal of welding inspections, usually on coded tanks, vessels or other types of equipment. so I just pondered that thought of welding on a luger or old gun like these. If it was even possible and still hold up in its integrity.

08-14-2013, 12:00 AM	#11
Curly1 User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 1,230 Thanks: 113 Thanked 703 Times in 365 Posts	Exceptional work. __________________ Laugh hard and often. Gary

08-14-2013, 07:34 AM	#12
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Have seen a few Gale Morgan restored guns, I would say this end result is at his skill level!

08-14-2013, 08:16 AM	#14
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Here is Teds site~~~~~http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/

08-14-2013, 09:19 AM	#15
Olle User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,149 Thanks: 159 Thanked 663 Times in 318 Posts	Bluing can sure hide a lot of crap. I have polished several guns that looked like they just had some high spot wear, but the amount of small pits and scratches I found after stripping almost made me regret that I ever started... Fortunately, some minor imperfections will be hidden again after bluing, but you can't get away with much if the rest of the gun is perfect.

08-14-2013, 12:08 PM	#16
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Sometimes welding is required, sometimes not. HUB or Neil Keller of Kustom Ballistics does great low temp welding. He just sent me an early AE Luger that someone had cut a hole in the trigger frame which he fixed. I will now rust blue over the repair. Part of my advantage is I have talents to draw from on my restorations, Hugh, Jerry,Neil, Les, Tom H, Brian Powley, GT all add to the team effort on these great Lugers. I am so fortune and blessed to know these skilled people. John S and John D help me on my website and computer issues, what a thrill to have these kind people help me. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

08-14-2013, 03:08 PM	#17
Patronen User Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 312 Thanks: 335 Thanked 93 Times in 70 Posts	Attached Images __________________ Dave

08-14-2013, 04:48 PM	#18
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Quite excellent Dave, outstanding! __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."