Need .30 cal load ideas

[spacecoast]

I had 500 of GT's 93 grain FMJ bullets delivered today and brass on the way. My RCBS dies are in hand and I'm almost ready to go. I have Titegroup, AA#2 and Bullseye powder.

What loads will make my 1920s Commercial purr like a kitten? I'd like some relatively soft shooting but proper cycling loads. Closest thing I have found so far is from Accurate Powder - 4.1 to 4.5 grains of AA#2 under a 90 grain Hornady XTP.

[sheepherder]

1953 Lyman manual says 4.0 gr Bullseye gives 1173fps with 93 gr FMJ...

1970 Lyman manual says 3.5 gr Bullseye gives 1025fps; 4.0 gr gives 1123fps with 93 gr FMJ...

[spacecoast]

sheepherder -

Thanks very much, exactly the info I needed. I'll post back when I've been to the range and given these a try.

[cliffdropover1]

Please post where you got your bullets from. I would like to order some of these too.
Thanks

[rhuff]

Originally Posted by cliffdropover1

Please post where you got your bullets from. I would like to order some of these too.
Thanks

He got those bullets from our own GT(on this forum). I don't know if he has any more for sale, but you can send him a PM, or email. They are a good bullet for the 30Luger brass.

[rhuff]

Originally Posted by spacecoast

I had 500 of GT's 93 grain FMJ bullets delivered today and brass on the way. My RCBS dies are in hand and I'm almost ready to go. I have Titegroup, AA#2 and Bullseye powder.

What loads will make my 1920s Commercial purr like a kitten? I'd like some relatively soft shooting but proper cycling loads. Closest thing I have found so far is from Accurate Powder - 4.1 to 4.5 grains of AA#2 under a 90 grain Hornady XTP.

Pistol powder is really limited/non-existent these days, at least in my part of the Country. I have loaded the 30Luger round with fast powders(Bullseye, and Red Dot) and had some success. It has not produced perfect reliability in my lugers, but may in yours. I have had better performance/reliability by using a medium burn powder like Unique. I am also planning on working up some 30luger loads with Power Pistol powder on down the road. I have no experience with AA#2 powder.

Let us know how thing work out for you. Adequate neck tension on the 30Luger brass is paramount to prevent bullet setback and raising chamber pressures. Do not overcrimp the case mouth.

[cliffdropover1]

How do I find GT or his email?

[spacecoast]

How do I find GT or his email?

GT is Gerald Tomek, and he's at gctomeks@msn.com. Extremely nice forum member and is quick to respond.

I have had better performance/reliability by using a medium burn powder like Unique.

rhuff - I also have Unique, what have you used that works well? I will load some of those at the same time. Looking for 93 grain .30 cal and 115 grain 9mm loads. Thanks!

[cliffdropover1]

I have loaded the .93 grain lead with 3.5 and 4.0 of Bullseye. Both worked well. I decided to use the 3.5 simply because it works and there is less pressure on an old gun. I have found that 4.7 grains of W231 for the 9mm 115 grain fmj bullet comes very close to the factory load and chronographs only 100 fps slower. It is quite accurate and reliable.

[rhuff]

[QUOTE=spacecoast;261440



rhuff - I also have Unique, what have you used that works well? I will load some of those at the same time. Looking for 93 grain .30 cal and 115 grain 9mm loads. Thanks![/QUOTE]



I am having good results in MY 30Luger handguns(Lugers, Colt, and BHP) with Unique 5.1gr with the Swiss 93gr FMJ @ 1.145 OAL. I strongly suggest that you start working up loads for YOUR Luger at say 4.6-4.7gr of Unique and see what works best for you and your luger. You just want to use a quantity of powder that will produce reliability and accuracy....no more. These Lugers are old and none of us want to be breaking parts, or hurting ourselves. So, start low, and "sneak up" to the load that works the best. That is the safest and best approach.


For the 9mm loads using a 115gr FMJ, start your loads around 5.0-5.1gr Unique, and work them up to around 5.5gr of Unique. You should find a loading in that range that your pistol likes. As to the OAL, I load as long as possible depending on the bullet profile, what works in the mags, and fits the chamber. It is better for feeding in the lugers, and also safer as to chamber pressures.




Just remember, ever Luger is an individual, and what works for me and my pistols, may not work at all for you and yours. A system of trial and error. Good luck.

[spacecoast]

I made my first .30 Luger reloads using GT's bullets (93 gr. FMJ) and brass. I made 12 rounds each using 3.5 gr. Bullseye, 4.0 grains Bullseye and 4.1 grains AA#2. Hopefully these will all work well in my 1920 Commercial.

The 2-die set RCBS dies were a little tricky to get set up compared to my 4-die Lee sets, but I think I finally got them right. I may still invest in a Lee FCD to apply the crimp. The bullet shape is a little more blunt than factory rounds and I set them all to 1.15" OAL (same as the factory round). Hopefully they will feed alright. Pic below is of a vintage Western round on the right (I have about 40 of these to try as well), and my reload on the left.

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

1953 Lyman manual says 4.0 gr Bullseye gives 1173fps with 93 gr FMJ...

Hi,

1970 Lyman manual says 3.5 gr Bullseye gives 1025fps; 4.0 gr gives 1123fps with 93 gr FMJ...

The 1970's load won't even operate the action. It seems that there were some weaker actioned foreign pistols made in this caliber, so...

Sieger

[spacecoast]

I posted last night, but it seems there have been system problems. Hopefully this one will stick.

I had a chance to try my new 93 grain .30 cal reloads yesterday at the range. Both 4.1 gr. of AA#2 and 4.0 gr. of Bullseye worked fine in my 1920s Commercial. 3.5 gr. of Bullseye left the empty brass in the chamber EVERY TIME, as if it wasn't enough oomph to flex the toggle at all. Not even a stovepipe.

The .30 cal Luger is a really sweet combination of gun and ammo. Taking 22 grains off the 9mm bullet weight softens the recoil and it seems really accurate, too. I could only go out to 15 yards due to a range maintenance issue, but had no problem holding 3" groups offhand, and I think that will get better with more trigger time.

I had disassembled and cleaned the extractors on all of my shooters before going to the range, and I think that really helped. I previously had problems with my Erfurt not going fully into battery but didn't see any signs of that yesterday. All three of my 115 gr. 9mm loads (4.1 gr. AA#2, 4.7 gr. Titegroup and 5.3 grains of Unique) worked well.

[rhuff]

Sounds like you and your Lugers had a very pleasant and successful range trip. That is the kind of info that we all enjoy hearing.

[cliffdropover1]

I loaded some .93 grain .30 cal. with 4.5 and 5.0 of Unique as mentioned in the Lyman manual. As both worked well I will stay with the 4.5 load. (took a long time to find some Unique powder)

[spacecoast]

I loaded some .93 grain .30 cal. with 4.5 and 5.0 of Unique as mentioned in the Lyman manual. As both worked well I will stay with the 4.5 load.

Thanks, another good one I can try in the future. Unique is kind of a do-everything pistol powder.

I forgot to mention that my impression of the quite aged (40+ year old) Western rounds I also shot is that they were loaded a bit heavier than either of my reloads. Nothing scientific to back that up, just my impression.

[cliffdropover1]

I have some .30 cal. Fiocchi that seems quite hot compared to my reloads. Since I don't have a chronograph I go by felt recoil and all my working loads are not as hot as factory. I did work up a 9mm load once and (by felt recoil) thought it was close to factory. I did get a chance to chronograph this load and it was only 100 fps slower than factory. I felt therefore, that one can determine a lot by felt recoil. Thus your impressions are probably correct.

[Sieger]

Hi,

If, after you have found an appropriate powder charge, your pistol wants to jam, when trying to fire from a full magazine of 8 rounds; its probably your cartridges' over all lengths. The commercial stuff is all way too short for proper Luger function, so expect jams with it when shooting from a fully charged magazine.

Please see my sticky on determining proper O.A.L. when using a new type of bullet in Luger reloading, as this should be helpful. The original DWM round nose ammo was loaded to 1.173 inches.

Also, you may be able to get your Luger to function with light charges of fast powders, but if you really want it to shoot accurately, I'd try medium to slow powders. Power Pistol and IMR SR 4756 (if you can find any), should be up to the task.

Good luck!


Sieger

[spacecoast]

The original DWM round nose ammo was loaded to 1.173 inches.

Can't say for sure without trying, but I have serious doubts as to whether ammo with an OAL of that value would fit into the magazine, especially with the more blunt profile of the bullets I purchased from GT. I loaded mine to 1.145", same as the Western round shown on the right, and they seemed like a pretty tight fit.

You are correct that the specs allow for a max length of 1.175". I will load up a dummy round and verify what the longest round is that I could use in both my Mecgar and older magazines.

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by spacecoast

Can't say for sure without trying, but I have serious doubts as to whether ammo with an OAL of that value would fit into the magazine, especially with the more blunt profile of the bullets I purchased from GT. I loaded mine to 1.145", same as the Western round shown on the right, and they seemed like a pretty tight fit.

You are correct that the specs allow for a max length of 1.175". I will load up a dummy round and verify what the longest round is that I could use in both my Mecgar and older magazines.

Hi,

Not to beat a dead horse, but you will have to experiment with a full 8 rounds in your magazine, all of exactly the same O.A.L., to test for positive function.

I experimented with Winchester .30 cal. bullets, some 25 or 30 years ago, back when they were commercially available for handloaders. The 1.173 O.A.L. was, indeed, correct for perfect, jam free, function.

Luger cartridges don't just "sit" in a magazine, as, for instance, they do in a 1911's magazine; rather, they ride up the sides of the magazine at somewhat of a sharp angel. This was a major design difference between Browning's 1911 pistol and the Luger pistol. It was caused by that very steeply angled grip of the Luger, as opposed to the straighter 1911 grip angel. This is why proper cartridge O.A.L., in a Luger, is so very critical for proper and trustworthy function. Unfortunately, modern ammo manufacturers have long ago forgotten about making Lugers function properly.


Sieger