1906 American Eagle 9mm Near Mint!

CJS57 · 10-20-2012, 10:39 PM

Just picked it up this afternoon. Here it is for your viewing enjoyment. Still wish we had a better serial range for 9mm Script mags vs. Plain bottom? There is an odd tiny number 3 by the trigger? This is one of the cleanest, nicest Lugers inside I have ever seen. It is a real testament to the skill and craftsmanship of the gunmakers at DWM in pre-WWI Germany. I feel very lucky to have found it!

MFC · 10-20-2012, 11:21 PM

Gorgeous!!! Thanks for the pics.
The circled B barrel proof was discussed earlier. At the time it was associated with the Brazilian contract. I think the consensus now is that it is an inspectors initial not necessarily associated with Brazil.

irishcop45 · 10-21-2012, 12:21 AM

Beautiful weapon!

Lugerdoc · 10-21-2012, 10:11 AM

Whenever I see a luger of that age with minty strawed parts, I think restoration. Any input from Thor? TH

SteveM · 10-21-2012, 12:21 PM

Wasn't the Germany stamp applied after bluing? Shouldn't there be a halo confirming this? Maybe I am off base, someone please tell me so if I am.

CJS57 · 10-21-2012, 02:55 PM

More pictures of the amazing attention to detail that DWM did back then! Notice that the entire inside of the pistol was polished and honed After it was blued.

ithacaartist · 10-21-2012, 03:58 PM

A beautiful pistol!

The insides of rust blued original early Lugers are properly "in the white" because they were hand finished, not dipped, as Mauser later finished them; so, no need to polish and hone.

drbuster · 10-21-2012, 07:09 PM

Chris, a small number of these 9mm 1906 eagles had the marking "PRV" stamped on the lower back of the frame (magazine) well. Some feel this meant "private", perhaps for private purchase of some military personell. My 9mm AE #25255 has this marking. I am always looking for serial numbers of similarly marked 9mm AE's.

nukem556 · 10-21-2012, 07:49 PM

It almost looks too good to be true, but my amateur opinion is it could be a stunning original (or the absolute best resto I've ever seen) ....love to hear what Ron thinks. Only thing that puzzles me is the milled out safety area....looks like some bluing is bled into the milled area, and i thought the milling was done after blue.

lugersrkewl · 10-21-2012, 08:03 PM

perhaps his tool didnt get that far?

nukem556 · 10-21-2012, 08:15 PM

More nitpicks....the sear spring is awfully brilliant blue after 100 years.....no rub marks on the large flat area of the grip safety under the grips.

wlyon · 10-21-2012, 10:11 PM

I'm afraid my vote would be for a very nice restoration..Everything is to perfect and the witness mark looks off . Still a nice looking luger, Bill

Edward Tinker · 10-21-2012, 10:21 PM

but you wouldn't take a barrel off for a restoration

or do you guys think the barrel has been replaced.

and then my third thought is... YIKES -- CJ came to share and we've all given possible bad news

var99 · 10-21-2012, 10:23 PM

A lot of it looks good but other aspects....?. To Steve's, point I have 6 prewar commercials including a 9mm 1906 AE, and on all the "Germany" stamp has a very distinct halo. And Nukem is correct, there should be no bleeding of the blue into the milled safety area. Still a very nice piece.
Vince

deepdarkwoodsman · 10-21-2012, 10:40 PM

I always hate to do this without having seen the gun in person, but there are a couple of other issues I see here.

The right grip panel looks a little beat up. Why would the bluing be pristine and the grip panel show wear? Either the grips aren't original or are original and put back on the gun after refinishing.

The other issue I have is the center toggle locking pin. If you look at the close up picture, it looks as though someone either tried to take off the bluing or there is corrosion to the pin (or both). Why would the gun be mint without any aging but the pin be corroded?

Sorry, but this doesn't quite add up. Again, this is just my amateur opinion.

Doug

nukem556 · 10-21-2012, 10:57 PM

Given all the concerns, it's still a beautiful and rare Luger I'd be proud to own.....depending on what I'd paid for it! And I hope it didn't come from PIA.....................

Ron Wood · 10-22-2012, 12:53 AM

The uneven strike on the BUG proofs does not bother me. They were applied with individual die punches (Crown and letter on same die) and not a roll die, so more often than not BUG markings are a little off. Also I am not overly concerned with the weakness of the top of the AE crest. The Model 1906 American Eagle Lugers are short frame and receiver. Consequently the top of the crest is much closer to the front of the receiver and typically is not as deeply struck as the top of the crest on the earlier long-frame 1900s. This one may be a little bit weaker than average though.

It is a beautiful gun, one that can be displayed with pride, and I believe it to be an original 9mm AE (a scarce gun). However I believe that it is an expert professional restoration. The most telling discrepancy is that in the restoration process the halos on the barrel serial and caliber numbers were artificially created. I cannot recall ever seening halos that pronounced on a 1906. It is pretty consistant with early guns (1900s and 1906s) that the serial number (and generally the caliber marking also) stamped near the flange will not exhibit a halo at all. I have a 1906 AE 9mm (somewhat earlier...#28866) and a 7,65mm (#48710, a little bit closer in serial number range). Both are original and the 7.65mm is very close to 100%. Neither gun has a halo on the barrel serial number. The GERMANY stamps on the frames do have a halo.

It is an unfortunate circumstance that posting a very nice Luger on the forums is like throwing a chunk of raw meat to a pack of starving wolves. The urge to rip it apart is too strong. I know that it may be an attempt to educate the unwary, but it I feel sad for the owner non-the-less.

Ron Wood · 10-22-2012, 07:10 PM

I understand your logic, however you are going by what you believe were the practices of the day. I am going by observed original 1906 Lugers, and the BUG and chamber markings on many are as I described them. So you are welcome to disagree all you want to.

Thor · 10-22-2012, 08:58 PM

Checked my records, this Luger has NOT been through my shop, very nice.

ithacaartist · 10-23-2012, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJS57

There is an odd tiny number 3 by the trigger?

Looks like an "8" making a faint appearance to the right of the 3...

10-20-2012, 10:39 PM	#1
CJS57 User Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 224 Thanks: 0 Thanked 81 Times in 41 Posts	1906 American Eagle 9mm Near Mint! Just picked it up this afternoon. Here it is for your viewing enjoyment. Still wish we had a better serial range for 9mm Script mags vs. Plain bottom? There is an odd tiny number 3 by the trigger? This is one of the cleanest, nicest Lugers inside I have ever seen. It is a real testament to the skill and craftsmanship of the gunmakers at DWM in pre-WWI Germany. I feel very lucky to have found it!

10-21-2012, 03:58 PM	#7
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,282 Thanks: 7,007 Thanked 2,476 Times in 1,319 Posts	A beautiful pistol! The insides of rust blued original early Lugers are properly "in the white" because they were hand finished, not dipped, as Mauser later finished them; so, no need to polish and hone. __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

10-21-2012, 10:11 PM	#12
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,614 Thanks: 3,140 Thanked 2,519 Times in 939 Posts	I'm afraid my vote would be for a very nice restoration..Everything is to perfect and the witness mark looks off . Still a nice looking luger, Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

10-21-2012, 10:21 PM	#13
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	but you wouldn't take a barrel off for a restoration or do you guys think the barrel has been replaced. and then my third thought is... YIKES -- CJ came to share and we've all given possible bad news __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-22-2012, 12:53 AM	#17
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	The uneven strike on the BUG proofs does not bother me. They were applied with individual die punches (Crown and letter on same die) and not a roll die, so more often than not BUG markings are a little off. Also I am not overly concerned with the weakness of the top of the AE crest. The Model 1906 American Eagle Lugers are short frame and receiver. Consequently the top of the crest is much closer to the front of the receiver and typically is not as deeply struck as the top of the crest on the earlier long-frame 1900s. This one may be a little bit weaker than average though. It is a beautiful gun, one that can be displayed with pride, and I believe it to be an original 9mm AE (a scarce gun). However I believe that it is an expert professional restoration. The most telling discrepancy is that in the restoration process the halos on the barrel serial and caliber numbers were artificially created. I cannot recall ever seening halos that pronounced on a 1906. It is pretty consistant with early guns (1900s and 1906s) that the serial number (and generally the caliber marking also) stamped near the flange will not exhibit a halo at all. I have a 1906 AE 9mm (somewhat earlier...#28866) and a 7,65mm (#48710, a little bit closer in serial number range). Both are original and the 7.65mm is very close to 100%. Neither gun has a halo on the barrel serial number. The GERMANY stamps on the frames do have a halo. It is an unfortunate circumstance that posting a very nice Luger on the forums is like throwing a chunk of raw meat to a pack of starving wolves. The urge to rip it apart is too strong. I know that it may be an attempt to educate the unwary, but it I feel sad for the owner non-the-less. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

10-20-2012, 11:21 PM	#2
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Gorgeous!!! Thanks for the pics. The circled B barrel proof was discussed earlier. At the time it was associated with the Brazilian contract. I think the consensus now is that it is an inspectors initial not necessarily associated with Brazil. __________________ Mike C.

10-21-2012, 12:21 AM	#3
irishcop45 User Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Central PA Posts: 21 Thanks: 17 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Beautiful weapon!

10-21-2012, 10:11 AM	#4
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Whenever I see a luger of that age with minty strawed parts, I think restoration. Any input from Thor? TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

10-21-2012, 12:21 PM	#5
SteveM User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,016 Thanks: 94 Thanked 275 Times in 137 Posts	Wasn't the Germany stamp applied after bluing? Shouldn't there be a halo confirming this? Maybe I am off base, someone please tell me so if I am.

10-21-2012, 02:55 PM	#6
CJS57 User Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 224 Thanks: 0 Thanked 81 Times in 41 Posts	More pictures of the amazing attention to detail that DWM did back then! Notice that the entire inside of the pistol was polished and honed After it was blued.

10-21-2012, 07:09 PM	#8
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Chris, a small number of these 9mm 1906 eagles had the marking "PRV" stamped on the lower back of the frame (magazine) well. Some feel this meant "private", perhaps for private purchase of some military personell. My 9mm AE #25255 has this marking. I am always looking for serial numbers of similarly marked 9mm AE's.

10-21-2012, 07:49 PM	#9
nukem556 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Irmo, SC Posts: 625 Thanks: 35 Thanked 168 Times in 107 Posts	It almost looks too good to be true, but my amateur opinion is it could be a stunning original (or the absolute best resto I've ever seen) ....love to hear what Ron thinks. Only thing that puzzles me is the milled out safety area....looks like some bluing is bled into the milled area, and i thought the milling was done after blue.

10-21-2012, 08:03 PM	#10
lugersrkewl Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Ussr Posts: 425 Thanks: 198 Thanked 75 Times in 58 Posts	perhaps his tool didnt get that far?

10-21-2012, 08:15 PM	#11
nukem556 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Irmo, SC Posts: 625 Thanks: 35 Thanked 168 Times in 107 Posts	More nitpicks....the sear spring is awfully brilliant blue after 100 years.....no rub marks on the large flat area of the grip safety under the grips.

10-21-2012, 10:23 PM	#14
var99 User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: FL Posts: 114 Thanks: 4 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	A lot of it looks good but other aspects....?. To Steve's, point I have 6 prewar commercials including a 9mm 1906 AE, and on all the "Germany" stamp has a very distinct halo. And Nukem is correct, there should be no bleeding of the blue into the milled safety area. Still a very nice piece. Vince

10-21-2012, 10:40 PM	#15
deepdarkwoodsman User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: North Carolina Posts: 38 Thanks: 1 Thanked 5 Times in 1 Post	I always hate to do this without having seen the gun in person, but there are a couple of other issues I see here. The right grip panel looks a little beat up. Why would the bluing be pristine and the grip panel show wear? Either the grips aren't original or are original and put back on the gun after refinishing. The other issue I have is the center toggle locking pin. If you look at the close up picture, it looks as though someone either tried to take off the bluing or there is corrosion to the pin (or both). Why would the gun be mint without any aging but the pin be corroded? Sorry, but this doesn't quite add up. Again, this is just my amateur opinion. Doug

10-21-2012, 10:57 PM	#16
nukem556 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Irmo, SC Posts: 625 Thanks: 35 Thanked 168 Times in 107 Posts	Given all the concerns, it's still a beautiful and rare Luger I'd be proud to own.....depending on what I'd paid for it! And I hope it didn't come from PIA.....................

10-22-2012, 07:10 PM	#18
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	I understand your logic, however you are going by what you believe were the practices of the day. I am going by observed original 1906 Lugers, and the BUG and chamber markings on many are as I described them. So you are welcome to disagree all you want to. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

10-22-2012, 08:58 PM	#19
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Checked my records, this Luger has NOT been through my shop, very nice. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."