What's this all about, then?

some_finn · 12-16-2005, 07:44 AM

Hi.

Thought I'd post some pics and info of my Parabellum in case someone can tell me more about it.

There is no letter, just a number? Side plate and disassembly catch have matching numbers, rear toggle does not. Rear toggle also appers to have slightly different finish. The side plate too, but I hear that's not unusual? Sideplate also has a number "1" on the inside?

The actual "bolt head" or whatever the front part of the toggle lock is called is a replacement part, it was replaced when I bought the gun. The original had broken and had been soldered so it was unclear if it was safe to shoot.

Middle toggle has the DWM logo, safety reveals "gesichert" text when on safe, the extractor has "geladen".

Barrel is a Tikkakoski 9mm 4" one without a serial number.

I suspect this is a "truly commercial" gun, in other words not imported for the Finnish Army but sold privately.
According to Walter's book the ones bought by the Finnish Army didn't have geladen/gesichert markings (is that correct?).
There is also a theory that the unnumbered Tikkakoski barrels were installed commercially, whereas the numbered ones were fitted by army arsenals.

The trigger has been finely tuned, it's very light and crisp with absolutely no creep, apparently this was someone's target pistol. Actually it has the best trigger of any of my semiauto pistols, modern or vintage.

So, any thoughts? Especially any idea what the serial number is all about, with no letter?

Luke · 12-16-2005, 09:05 AM

Looking at the picture of the frame SN, my impression is that the original serial number has been ground off and a new number applied. Can you determine if this is true? Three of my Finnish Parabellums have the original SN ground off and replaced, and all of them came directly from Finland, so I am confident they were modified in that country. I have no idea why this would have been done.

Can you tell what the stamping below the frame serial number is?

It appears to be a crown, a very unusual marking for that area, I think.

Luke

Rod WMG · 12-16-2005, 10:27 AM

Ed, you aren't going crazy. I've read that too.

Luke · 12-16-2005, 11:40 AM

Did Ed delete a post?

Edward Tinker · 12-16-2005, 11:43 AM

no, rod was drinking wine coolers last night

(I really didn't do anything in this posting)

Lyn Islaub · 12-16-2005, 05:38 PM

There's a 20's era commercial Luger for sale here in the Phoenix area with the same type of crown stamp on the trigger guard. I had discounted it until this one showed up. Who knows what it signifies??
Thx, Lyn

Lugerdoc · 12-17-2005, 02:06 PM

Ed et al, I have owned several of these commericals with a crown stamped over the original suffix letter (usually an S or T) sneak with a normal 9x100mm barrel, rather than the Tikka replacement barrel shown. In 30 years, no one has identified this crown over stamp for me, but it looks a lot like the Swedish crown I see on their Lahti M40 pistols. TH

jcoe · 12-18-2005, 10:18 PM

I have seen a similar Crown that overstamped the frame suffix on a 1929 DWM police. On page 275, Weimar Lugers, there is another example of a crown stamped over a suffix on a 29 DWM commercial. Seems like the primary purpose of this crown was to obliterate suffixes.
John

Rod WMG · 12-18-2005, 11:32 PM

Hummm...I thought I replied to a different thread. Dunno what happened. I know it couldn't be wine as I can't abide the taste. Maybe Coke (the legal kind) or Dr. Pepper had me in its clutches.

I'll blame it on my mouse as I had to buy a new one yesterday.

Edit: I was supposed to be replying to Ed's assertion that the cops used to advise electropenciling numbers onto guns in the Dark Ages.

12-16-2005, 07:44 AM	#1
some_finn User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 20 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	What's this all about, then? Hi. Thought I'd post some pics and info of my Parabellum in case someone can tell me more about it. There is no letter, just a number? Side plate and disassembly catch have matching numbers, rear toggle does not. Rear toggle also appers to have slightly different finish. The side plate too, but I hear that's not unusual? Sideplate also has a number "1" on the inside? The actual "bolt head" or whatever the front part of the toggle lock is called is a replacement part, it was replaced when I bought the gun. The original had broken and had been soldered so it was unclear if it was safe to shoot. Middle toggle has the DWM logo, safety reveals "gesichert" text when on safe, the extractor has "geladen". Barrel is a Tikkakoski 9mm 4" one without a serial number. I suspect this is a "truly commercial" gun, in other words not imported for the Finnish Army but sold privately. According to Walter's book the ones bought by the Finnish Army didn't have geladen/gesichert markings (is that correct?). There is also a theory that the unnumbered Tikkakoski barrels were installed commercially, whereas the numbered ones were fitted by army arsenals. The trigger has been finely tuned, it's very light and crisp with absolutely no creep, apparently this was someone's target pistol. Actually it has the best trigger of any of my semiauto pistols, modern or vintage. So, any thoughts? Especially any idea what the serial number is all about, with no letter?

12-16-2005, 09:05 AM	#2
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	Looking at the picture of the frame SN, my impression is that the original serial number has been ground off and a new number applied. Can you determine if this is true? Three of my Finnish Parabellums have the original SN ground off and replaced, and all of them came directly from Finland, so I am confident they were modified in that country. I have no idea why this would have been done. Can you tell what the stamping below the frame serial number is? It appears to be a crown, a very unusual marking for that area, I think. Luke __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

12-16-2005, 11:40 AM	#4
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	Did Ed delete a post? __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

12-17-2005, 02:06 PM	#7
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Ed et al, I have owned several of these commericals with a crown stamped over the original suffix letter (usually an S or T) sneak with a normal 9x100mm barrel, rather than the Tikka replacement barrel shown. In 30 years, no one has identified this crown over stamp for me, but it looks a lot like the Swedish crown I see on their Lahti M40 pistols. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

12-16-2005, 10:27 AM	#3
Rod WMG User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Edge of Texas Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ed, you aren't going crazy. I've read that too.

12-16-2005, 11:43 AM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	no, rod was drinking wine coolers last night (I really didn't do anything in this posting)

12-16-2005, 05:38 PM	#6
Lyn Islaub Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 435 Thanks: 3 Thanked 152 Times in 72 Posts	There's a 20's era commercial Luger for sale here in the Phoenix area with the same type of crown stamp on the trigger guard. I had discounted it until this one showed up. Who knows what it signifies?? Thx, Lyn

12-18-2005, 10:18 PM	#8
jcoe User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: mt Posts: 38 Thanks: 13 Thanked 31 Times in 9 Posts	I have seen a similar Crown that overstamped the frame suffix on a 1929 DWM police. On page 275, Weimar Lugers, there is another example of a crown stamped over a suffix on a 29 DWM commercial. Seems like the primary purpose of this crown was to obliterate suffixes. John

12-18-2005, 11:32 PM	#9
Rod WMG User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Edge of Texas Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hummm...I thought I replied to a different thread. Dunno what happened. I know it couldn't be wine as I can't abide the taste. Maybe Coke (the legal kind) or Dr. Pepper had me in its clutches. I'll blame it on my mouse as I had to buy a new one yesterday. Edit: I was supposed to be replying to Ed's assertion that the cops used to advise electropenciling numbers onto guns in the Dark Ages.