1904 Navy first military Luger??

Roadkill · 06-24-2002, 06:15 PM

http://www.waffenhq.de/infanterie/pa...arabellum.html

1904 wurde die Pistole samt dem neuen Kaliber bei
In 1904 the Pistol along with the new caliber

der kaiserlichen Marine unter der
was issued to the imperial Navy

Bezeichnung "Selbstladepistole 04" eingefÃ?Â¼hrt und
under the designation "Selfloading Pistol 04"

mit der ersten fabrikgefertigten Munition, einem
along with the first factory provided ammunition

bei DWM gefertigten abgeflachten
that was finished/polished by DWM,they

Stahlmantelgeschoss (auch Kegelstumpfgeschoss)
were steel cased (also lead core)

und einer speziell fÃ?Â¼r die Luger Pistole
especially made for the Luger pistol,

abgestimmten Ladung, versehen.
to insure positive feeding.

Few questions, if so how many were there, what did the 1904 Navy look like, what are their markings?
RK

Ron Wood · 06-24-2002, 09:14 PM

The 1904 Navy has the same overall appearance as all subsequent Navy models. It had a grip safety and Crown/M proofs. However, like the 1903 Commercial, it was a true transition from the 1902 to the 1906 configuration. It has the "long" old model frame with stock lug and still has the laminated flat mainspring. It retains the toggle lock but the toggle knobs are flat rather than dished and the checkering on the knobs was at 90 degrees rather than 60 degrees as became standard. The breech block was the most marked change from the old model configuration. It is of the 1906 new model configuration incorporating the improved extractor, and of course the receiver is new model also to accommodate the breech block.

I have recorded 27 serial numbers over the years, ranging from serial number 36 to 1150. The serial numbers appear to occur in "blocks" so it is hard to say if there actually were over a thousand produced. The production serial numbers may not have been contiguous.

Like all rare Lugers, there is considerable controversy over authenticity of the existing examples. Generally speaking, an "original" 1904 Navy probably has the true transitional Luger features, i.e. the flat 90 degree toggle knobs, a one piece toggle latch (as opposed to the three piece latch of the 1900 and 1902 Lugers) and the "wide" extractor "ears". There are examples that have the three-piece latch and narrow ears, and this is where the controversy enters in, and I am not prepared to weigh in on one side or the other. Just presenting what I have observed.

Roadkill · 06-24-2002, 09:39 PM

Thanks for the info. What was the origonal barrel length?

RK

Doubs · 06-24-2002, 11:23 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Roadkill:
<strong>What was the origonal barrel length?
RK</strong><hr></blockquote>

The original barel length was six inches. It had a "fat" barrel configuration.

Big Norm · 06-26-2002, 01:46 AM

RK,
I made a post on the old forum just before we went to the new forum. I considered buying one that was available then. Some excellent information came out as a result of that post. I also got some interesting emails about it from very reliable and known sources. My conclusion was that I would never buy one. Especially at the $8,000 on up prices that are being demanded. Well, maybe I would buy one at a greatly reduced price and then hang it up as a replica.
Big Norm

06-24-2002, 06:15 PM	#1
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	1904 Navy first military Luger?? http://www.waffenhq.de/infanterie/pa...arabellum.html 1904 wurde die Pistole samt dem neuen Kaliber bei In 1904 the Pistol along with the new caliber der kaiserlichen Marine unter der was issued to the imperial Navy Bezeichnung "Selbstladepistole 04" eingefÃ?Â¼hrt und under the designation "Selfloading Pistol 04" mit der ersten fabrikgefertigten Munition, einem along with the first factory provided ammunition bei DWM gefertigten abgeflachten that was finished/polished by DWM,they Stahlmantelgeschoss (auch Kegelstumpfgeschoss) were steel cased (also lead core) und einer speziell fÃ?Â¼r die Luger Pistole especially made for the Luger pistol, abgestimmten Ladung, versehen. to insure positive feeding. Few questions, if so how many were there, what did the 1904 Navy look like, what are their markings? RK

06-24-2002, 09:14 PM	#2
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,020 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,173 Times in 1,701 Posts	The 1904 Navy has the same overall appearance as all subsequent Navy models. It had a grip safety and Crown/M proofs. However, like the 1903 Commercial, it was a true transition from the 1902 to the 1906 configuration. It has the "long" old model frame with stock lug and still has the laminated flat mainspring. It retains the toggle lock but the toggle knobs are flat rather than dished and the checkering on the knobs was at 90 degrees rather than 60 degrees as became standard. The breech block was the most marked change from the old model configuration. It is of the 1906 new model configuration incorporating the improved extractor, and of course the receiver is new model also to accommodate the breech block. I have recorded 27 serial numbers over the years, ranging from serial number 36 to 1150. The serial numbers appear to occur in "blocks" so it is hard to say if there actually were over a thousand produced. The production serial numbers may not have been contiguous. Like all rare Lugers, there is considerable controversy over authenticity of the existing examples. Generally speaking, an "original" 1904 Navy probably has the true transitional Luger features, i.e. the flat 90 degree toggle knobs, a one piece toggle latch (as opposed to the three piece latch of the 1900 and 1902 Lugers) and the "wide" extractor "ears". There are examples that have the three-piece latch and narrow ears, and this is where the controversy enters in, and I am not prepared to weigh in on one side or the other. Just presenting what I have observed. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-24-2002, 09:39 PM	#3
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Thanks for the info. What was the origonal barrel length? RK

06-24-2002, 11:23 PM	#4
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,696 Thanks: 792 Thanked 1,679 Times in 552 Posts	[quote]Originally posted by Roadkill: <strong>What was the origonal barrel length? RK</strong><hr></blockquote> The original barel length was six inches. It had a "fat" barrel configuration.

06-26-2002, 01:46 AM	#5
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	RK, I made a post on the old forum just before we went to the new forum. I considered buying one that was available then. Some excellent information came out as a result of that post. I also got some interesting emails about it from very reliable and known sources. My conclusion was that I would never buy one. Especially at the $8,000 on up prices that are being demanded. Well, maybe I would buy one at a greatly reduced price and then hang it up as a replica. Big Norm