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Unread 06-21-2021, 08:47 PM   #1
cirelaw
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Default Do Luger Magazines Become Less Effective~

over time and use?? It that why they were replaced, repaired or were they? A fully loaded magazine has to affect spring force over years of use or if stored full? Were they made stronger after the first world war? IE Kreighoff?
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Unread 06-21-2021, 09:40 PM   #2
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I wonder if there are any springs that never” take a set”…no matter how long they compressed to the solid state. The knowledge of physics leads me to belief that the stored energy in the compressed spring gradually and inevitably dissipates …the spring is taking a set.

I have heard of magazines kept loaded for years of not decades and still capable of feeding adequately, but I bet the spring get shorter…

I don,t think I would keep loaded magazines for a long time. Perhaps for military it,s necessary and affordable, but for a civilian…

IMHO
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Unread 06-21-2021, 10:57 PM   #3
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Default Luger magazine springs?

Luger magazine springs are an enigma wrapped in a mystery, at least to most of us who are shade tree gunsmiths at best! The primary question we try to answer with limited experience is as follows... We all know that the original springs take an initial set, followed by a slow degrading set over time. What we don't know if this set is made worse just by cycling, or worse by sitting fully loaded?
Now one has to realize that spring set results in a compression spring, getting shorter, and bigger around, AND weaker, (most likely from growing diameter coils..)
Also, one has to realize that Luger springs working parameters suck, as it goes almost fully solid on compression! And then back to full extension, within capture parameters.
Here's the rub, and what has escaped most repair attempts over the decades. The big problem with the setting spring is that, as mentioned above) grows in diameter as it take a set! So, all to soon, the coils of the spring start dragging on the side of the magazine shell and it seems to the operator that the spring is way too strong! So, what do you do with a spring that seems too strong, why you clip it of course! Now you might gain a little in changing the length of spring under compression, but you have lost quite a bit of extension strength and done little to cure the drag issue which is the problem initially?
The only cure, is/are, springs of modern materials, made slightly under so they come into spec when they take an initial set, and are of the proper length and wire dia.
With new springs like I just described, you can't make it fail, not in my lifetime, or yours! I've tested them thru thousands of cycles and they remain unchanged... When I had them made, the material used was describe to me as the same grade of material that was used on wire guided missiles... .... Forum members who have purchased GTHQ Mec-Gar mags with this spring upgrade can attest to their consistency and longevity.... Gives you something to think about.... best to all, til....lat'r....GT....
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Unread 06-22-2021, 07:07 AM   #4
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Default Iirc

a more likely cause of spring weakening is the fatigue caused by cycling + rarely by extended compression - i have used both Luger + U.S. 1911 magazines that were stored fully loaded for over 75 years + are still fully reliable - some spring manufactures state that compression usually weakens only poor quality steel or poorly tempered ones -
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Unread 06-22-2021, 09:55 AM   #5
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Default from CCW website -

What Weakens, And Doesn’t Weaken, A Magazine Spring

Modern magazine springs are manufactured to maintain their function under stress. In other words, they’re meant to be fully compressed when the magazine is fully loaded. If you were to load a brand new magazine to it’s capacity and let it sit in that condition for years, it should be absolutely fine.

If course, there are outside elements that could play into the longevity of the spring. Corrosion, debris, moisture to name a few. With these factors, the lifespan and/or intended function of a spring is always up in the air. But if kept away from these elements, it’s function shouldn’t change all that much.

[*** On the other hand, loading and unloading a magazine will degrade the spring’s usefulness over time. ***] There is no real rule of thumb when it comes to this, so it’s always best to maintain good practices with your magazine springs just as you would your firearm.

A modern magazine should be able to handle tens of thousands of cycles, but with anything, your mileage may vary.
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Unread 06-22-2021, 10:37 AM   #6
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Are Haenel Schmeisser Magazines superior to a German magazine like a prewar Kreighoff?
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Unread 06-23-2021, 03:15 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cirelaw View Post
Are Haenel Schmeisser Magazines superior to a German magazine like a prewar Kreighoff?
pretty sure that haenel made both of these Eric.

Haenel made many of the mags for lugers (and other arms) over the years.
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Unread 06-22-2021, 07:17 PM   #8
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the goodness of a spring depends on its elastic modulus. Up to a limiting stress, a body will be able to recover its dimensions on removal of the load. The applied stresses cause the atoms in a crystal to move from their equilibrium position. All the atoms are displaced the same amount and still maintain their relative geometry. When the stresses are removed, all the atoms return to their original positions and no permanent deformation occurs.

If you have a good spring, like one of GT's it will NOT deform or take a set. Deformation only occurs when the spring is pushed beyond its elastic modulus. I have seen Colt revolvers from the 1850s whose main springs have not changed a bit.

The demands of bent coil spring in the Luger magazine was a little bit beyond the metallurgical capabilities of its day. Either because of corrosion affecting the elastic modulus or because the spring was being pushed ever so slightly beyond it elastic modulus, the spring would not return fully to its original dimensions. Those micro failures add up over time.

Springs do not wear out or take a set unless they are pushed, even slightly beyond their limits. Did you exver wear out the valve springs in an old Ford or Chevy? (Who knows about the stuff they make them out of today.

I know this seems counterintuitive but it is real engineering and physics. A spring does not "take a set" unless you have exceeded its elastic modulus or it's carbon crystal structure is degrading.
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Unread 06-23-2021, 03:44 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinz View Post


Did you ever wear out the valve springs in an old Ford or Chevy?

I sure have broken my share of them. I would consider that total spring fatigue.
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Unread 06-22-2021, 07:54 PM   #10
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Whats the little hole for?
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Unread 06-23-2021, 02:03 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cirelaw View Post
Whats the little hole for?
So that the follower button can be tapped out when completely disassembling the mag.
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Unread 06-23-2021, 03:19 PM   #12
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Last year before covid, I was completing my update for concealed carry...i use my lugers for the shooting part....creates a discussion on the shooting line......i had a ftf about three rounds into the shoot.....the lips on the magazine had weakened over the many years and failed to align the next round....i grabbed another and completed my qualification....but the failed lips had reached their limits and would not hold their form after trying to repair the magazine...it has been retired....yes, they do wear out..................
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Unread 06-23-2021, 04:11 PM   #13
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Where all makes as strong,, or well made? I think so!
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Unread 06-23-2021, 07:02 PM   #14
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A properly designed and made spring will take a small initial set when first compressed. A very small initial set. Then, unless it's repeatedly put in the fully stacked coil position, which it never should be if designed properly for the application, they are good for several lifetimes. More than several lifetimes.
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Unread 06-30-2021, 12:25 PM   #15
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The Haenel schmisser marked mag you have pictured here is NOT a Krieghoff .
Actually no mags are Krieghoff produced .
Krieghoff used the type you have pictured but the tubes are unmarked .

This type is mainly 1937 and 1938 guns with some late 1936's having them also .
Yes this type is better than the rolled sheet steel type .

The different types of mags used by HK question was recently answered on the other site complete with pics .
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Unread 06-30-2021, 12:40 PM   #16
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These two are #7932 from my 1937 Kreighof! The picture posted was to compare!
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Unread 07-02-2021, 02:54 AM   #17
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Hi Eric

FWIK repeated loading and unloading is what really wears a magazine spring, not it you store it full, even for a long time.

Cheers.
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