Long Range shooting

[Ron Smith]

I've talked about how a friend and I enjoy the challenge of informal long range shooting.

We try to get out at least once or twice a week to just relax, enjoy being in the mountains and blow off stress. I'm retired, but he has a very stressful job. Shooting challenges are a great stress therapy. We had a great day yesterday. He can best me somewhat with a rifle, but I'm a little better than him with a handgun. We kind of balance out...

Having worked in and for gun shops part time, for nearly 30 years. The accuracy of handguns is often a discussed topic. The vast majority of people believe that handguns are not accurate beyond 50 yds. Some even claim , "You can't hit anything with a handgun beyond 25 yards."

These were taken at one of our favorite shooting spots. 40 miles from the nearest civilization.

I was shooting my .41 magnum Model 57 S&W 8-3/8" barrel. Using one of my favorite hand loads.

An 8-10" dia. rock, at a ranged 410 yds, faced with quartz, and highly visible from that distance. The result is from the first 6 shots I fired in gusty wind coming out of the canyon. The first two shots struck approx 2-3 feet to the right, one high one low. Once I figured the wind drift and elevation I got on target. I'm hoping the wind will cooperate next time.

I wanted to dispel some myths about handgun accuracy.

[Karl]

Ron,
Nice shooting. I don't think I could even see that rock at 400 yds. This is my best long range story: We have a rifle competition at the gun club shooting bowling pins offhand at 100 yds. - 5 shots at 5 pins. One day I decided to try my Webley Mk. VI revolver (purchased from Ed TInker). I aimed at a spot about 18" high centered on the group of pins and my first shot knocked down the left bowling pin. Using the same windage as a reference, and feedback from a spotter, I then knocked down 2 more pins with the remaining 4 shots. I was amazed, as were onlookers. I have since tried to repeat this feat without much success. Fortunately there were witnesses the first time. Nonetheless, it demonstrates that a handgun is effective at a man-sized target well past 100 yds.
KFS

[Ron Smith]

Hi Karl,

I'm 62 , when I was 10 my Grandad bought me a Daisy BB pistol that looked like a 1911 Colt.

I used to sit out by the wood shed where the dog food dishes were. Flies would land on the crumbs around the dishes. I got to the point that I could pick them off with the BB pistol from about 10-12 feet away with very few misses.

Since then I have owned and shot many, many handguns. One time, years ago, I was shooting with a close friend and his brother who was a non-believer about handgun accuracy.

I set a soup can on top of a larger bean can at approx. 200 yds. We were betting on who could hit the soup can with a scoped rifle, off-hand. We were all coming very close, but kept missing. I was carrying a S&W Model 60 2" .38 Spec. I finally pulled it out , fired one shot and hit the soup can dead center. My friends Brother just stood there with his mouth open. It was a somewhat lucky shot, but I didn't tell him that. It changed his perspective on handguns.

Another time when I was working in a shop. A young man came in and was asking one of the other guys who had been shooting with me, if handguns were very accurate? I over heard Gary say, "See that guy over there? I can say that if you're within 500 yds of him, and he has a good handgun that he knows, and happens to miss you with the first two shots.., Run."


Ron

[SteveM]

Great shooting, I've always thought that the 41 mag was a great round.

Didn't Elmer Keith get an elk at over 600 yds. with a 44 mag? Seem to have read that somewhere.

[Ron Smith]

Steve,

I've read that Elmer killed a running Mule Deer Buck at 500+ yds with a .45 Colt. It took 3 shots, but he got it.

I know an old fella, Wally Reid who knew Elmer when he was growing up in Idaho. He said he watched him break two dinner plates at about 400- 500 yds with a .45 Colt on a challenge from a non-believer, at a community barbecue. He said Elmer was so drunk, he was surprised he could even see the plates.

.41 mag is probably my all around favorite caliber. I've owned several Ruger Black Hawks, a Red Hawk(hated that gun), and 3 or 4 Model 57s over the years. I also had a Model 58 that I stupidly traded away.

I lost one of the Black Hawks after a taking a fall in the brush during a hunt. We looked for it for hours and never found it. Two years later I was hunting in the same area, and stopped to take a break. I was leaning against a stump when I looked down, and there it was sticking out of a gap in the side of the stump. It was fairly well sheltered from the snow and rain, so had a bit of surface rust but nothing that didn't clean up fairly well.

I've never cared much for .44 mag.

Ron

[rhuff]

I love shooting handguns, but I have developed "old hands and old eyes". I still try to get to the indoor range(I live in a large city) 1-2 times a week. I also am a handloader, like you. I don't believe that on my best day that I could have made the shot that you did, but it would have been fun trying.

For some reason, I have never owned a 41Mag. I tried 44Mag many years ago, but have no desire to shoot one these days. I do enjoy shooting 44 Special, 38-40, and of course, 30 Luger. The arthritis in my hands don't care much for hard recoiling handguns much these days.

[Ron Smith]

Richard,

It's 20% skill and 80% passion. I've always been fascinated with how far I could accurately shoot a handgun. We have a place that we can shoot 800-1000 yds. I tried a couple of revolvers at 800 yards, but only got one general area hit. I managed to hit the cut-bank, but not even close to my target. Kind of like firing a mortar...


My eyes are getting to the point that it's gets a bit more difficult each time. What kind of .44 Special do you have? I shoot one of the new S&W 21-4 , I love it. It's the one that I usually grab when I head for the woods. Very easy to carry , and has more than enough punch for any Nasty Grabbers I might run into. It shoots hard cast bullets like a target pistol. My shooting pardner has a Ruger Vaquero in .44 Special that I like a lot too.

I like 38-40 very much also... just didn't like the thin walls at the cartridge neck.

[rhuff]

Originally Posted by Ron Smith

Richard,

It's 20% skill and 80% passion. I've always been fascinated with how far I could accurately shoot a handgun. We have a place that we can shoot 800-1000 yds. I tried a couple of revolvers at 800 yards, but only got one general area hit. I managed to hit the cut-bank, but not even close to my target. Kind of like firing a mortar...


My eyes are getting to the point that it's gets a bit more difficult each time. What kind of .44 Special do you have? I shoot one of the new S&W 21-4 , I love it. It's the one that I usually grab when I head for the woods. Very easy to carry , and has more than enough punch for any Nasty Grabbers I might run into. It shoots hard cast bullets like a target pistol. My shooting pardner has a Ruger Vaquero in .44 Special that I like a lot too.

I like 38-40 very much also... just didn't like the thin walls at the cartridge neck.

I enjoy shooting a S&W 624 that I purchased many years ago. My favorite 44 Special revolver is my S&W Mod. 696. It is just the perfect revolver for my hand, and needs. That revolver will never be sold while I am alive. Sometimes I load my S&W Mod. 29 up with 44 Specials and give it a go. Within the last year, I purchased a Cimarron 4 3/4 in bbl. 1871 open top revolver in 44 Special. Sort of like a Navy Colt that fires contained cartridges....what a hoot to shoot, and POI is POA. I keep the loads fairly soft for that pistol with lack of a top strap, and a brass gripframe and triggerguard. Great trigger pull.

You are correct about the 38-40 and the thin brass. It does split easier than most other calibers, but I find 38-40 and 44-40 brass from time to time at gunshows, and Starline makes it new. I have an RCBS conversion/reforming die to convert 44-40 to 38-40, so that keeps me in brass. I have owned a 1905 Colt SAA in 38WCF for many, many years, and enjoy taking it to the range.

[Ice]

I too find the Smith model 24-3 four inch barrel in .44 special to be #1 favorite. My wife has a prized short barrel Colt SAA in .38-40 that we shoot on occasion. It always is a crowd pleaser that brings her plenty offers to trade the Colt for Glocks, various revolvers and even shotguns (after all, it IS just an old obsolete pistol that can't possibly protect her). She just laughs.

Unfortunately, the longest distance we can shoot pistols around here is 50 yards. I can hit a piece of typing paper at that distance (old eyes) but she won't even try. We usually shoot at 20 yards distance or less. She is positively deadly with her prized nickel plated Smith model 539 and I manage to hold my own with my Smith 39-2. Its great fun, keeping the eyes sharp and concentration working properly.

By the way, Ron, that's great shooting. I envy you that you have a good place to shoot at long distances.

Just rambling.

Charlie

[Sieger]

Hi:

You should try the same shot with your Luger.

You won't believe the accuracy!!

Sieger

[Ron Smith]

I've shot an C96 Mauser and one of my Artillery's at an estimated 250 yards. They were fairly accurate, and I wouldn't have wanted to have been at the receiving end.

Richard,

I've only seen one S&W 696, and it was spoken for already. If not, would have come home with me. I keep looking for another, but hard to find since they were a limited run.

I worked with an older man who was like a 2nd Dad to me when I was in my 30's. He had his Grandfather's 1902 vintage Colt Bisley 38-40. It was in close to 90% condition. I told him how much I would love to have it. He said that his Son wasn't really interested in it, but thought he should have it anyway, since it was his Great Grandfather's.

When Bill passed suddenly, his Wife told me after the funeral, that Bill wanted me to have the Colt. I asked about their Son, and she said he hates guns and doesn't want it in his house.

I waited about two weeks after Bill's funeral, and drove by to pick up the Colt. Marie, Bill's Wife, said that their Son had come and gotten it. I think he found out how much it was worth, took it and sold it.

Thanks Charlie,

I'm greatful that I'm able to have the ability to go shooting in the mountains. I've never been much for paper punching on a designated range.

My Wife really doesn't shoot much, but enjoys going out once in a while. She bought me a Ruger Bisley .32 H&R for Christmas when they first came out. We went on a trip to the woods to try it out. It is now her .32 H&R, she keeps it loaded in the night stand. I've since gotten one of Stainless Steel Ruger Birds Head Vaqueros in .32 H&R for me. A very handy little camping and fishing carry gun. Loaded with Ross Seyfried's hand load recipe of Hornady 100 gr XTP Hollow Points and 9 grains of H-110, it will stop a two legged snake, or even a nosey Cougar, if need be.

Ron

[rhuff]

Ron,

Keep looking for a S&W Mod. 696, I promise that you won't be disappointed. If you are disappointed with one, I will purchase it from you!! I don't have a real large hand, and the S&W N frame revolvers are just a tad too large for me. I still shoot them, but the K and L frame(which has the K frame gripframe) are just perfect and feels correct.

We all find handguns that just "fit" us, and ones that we shoot the best. I love them all, but there are certain models that I can shoot better than others. I wish that I could shoot them all the same, but I just can not do it. The P08 fits me well, and is a regular range gun.

[Karl]

Sieger,

The Luger is undoubtedly very accurate but compared to the Webley it is lightweight and jumps more due to the hotter cartridge. The best I can do with a Luger offhand is about a two and a half foot group at 100 yds. My impression is that the LP08 benefits more from the heavier barrel (and stock) than from the fancy sights.
KFS

[Ron Smith]

Here are some of my favorites.

The Security Six was a basket case that had been badly abused, and had a bent barrel. I bought dirt cheap, rebuilt it, tuned it, straighten the barrel and rounded the butt to factory specs, added a "Rough Country" rear sight. It's my "just in case I have to shoot something" companion Jeep gun. It shoots 180 gr LBT cast bullets very accurately with a moderately heavy load of "Lil Gun" powder. They hit like a pile driver.

The Ruger Bisley .45 Colt has been customized a bit, tuned and timed, and is slick as glass.

I prefer to pack the Mod. 21 .44 Spec. or the Bisley .45 when hiking in the woods. I have a customized Remington - Rand 1911-A1 that I will often carry on outings also. Scary accurate..

All are very accurate..

A friend and I had gone up to one of our best fishing spots after a heavy flood, to see if it had been washed out. We were walking the brushy trail along the river, when we turned a corner and came upon a new born Elk calf standing in the trail.

Mama instantly came out of the brush about 20 yards behind the calf, hooves first snorting, with her ears laid back. I yanked the Security Six and fired just over her head. The calf jumped, turned and ran back, and Mama followed.

That's about the closest I've ever come to wetting my pants while out in the woods. We back tracked a good distance and sat down to let the adrenaline settle. To this day I don't remember consciously drawing the gun.

[spartacus38]

I just posted my results from shooting a artillery luger at 100 yds in the shooting. section.
Bob

[rhuff]

Ron,

It looks like you have a nice "family' there, and pretty much one for any occasion.....except I didn't see a .22cal. I thought that it was illegal for any shooter to not have a .22 of some kind.

[Ron Smith]

I don't have a .22 revolver. I've got a Colt Woodsman Match Target 6" 2nd variation that I don't shoot much anymore, and a 1958-59 vintage Walther PP in .22.

I would like to get another S&W Mod. 63 but they have become way too expensive. I'm thinking about another Ruger Bearcat, my very first hand gun was a brand new Bearcat for $39.95 from Payless Drug Store.