Aluminum Cal 9mm Mag?

LugerVern · 06-03-2007, 12:26 AM

I bet some one has already posted this, but there is an aluminum Cal 9mm magazine on eBay right now---$260 last I looked.

Well, I was going to make a comment on this, but right now I am just speechless.

Vern

Pete Ebbink · 06-03-2007, 12:30 AM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...0%3D%26fvi%3D1

Maybe a practice, template piece...you see lots of phony wooden ones for sale...but those start with a real nice wooden M1900 magazine...

Or some "craftsmen" I hear start with an 06/24 Bern wooden magazine and sand the bottom down a bit to get rid of the Bern "ridge" along the middle of the bottom...

policeluger · 06-03-2007, 11:18 AM

LugerVern.....we're in the wrong business....

LugerVern · 06-04-2007, 07:08 AM

Could someone please post a clear picture of an original Cal 9mm magazine bottom? More than one example would be great!
Are there legitimate variations in the script?
Is there suppose to be a period after the Cal?
What kind of plating should be on the tube?
Has anyone ever counted the rings on the springs of these early 9mm magazines?
Is there anything unique about the magazine follower?
What type of wood was used?
Was a particular type of oil used, or were they left plain?
When were the last Cal 9mm magazines last made (1910)?
Were there replacements made at some time, say in the 20Ã¢??s for the American or European post war market?

I would like to see some pictures in the gallery that show a proper Cal 9mm magazine if someone would be so kind?

I am pretty irritated at all the fakery; there are non destructive tests that can be done to sort out most fakes, but first we need to sort out exactly what we are looking for.
Most of the answers to the above questions are found in books but rarely in one place.

Thanks

Vern

Pete Ebbink · 06-04-2007, 10:42 AM

Vern,

Here are a couple of shots from bottom-views that Members have previously posted and one "spurious" one that appeared and sold on eBay for quite a bit of money.

I will let you decide which one that one was...

A LF member out of MO state used to publish a Luger parts list where he offered for sale repro Cal 9 m/m magazines...I imagine some of those may be being resold as "originals" in the wrong hands.

Dante Di Pietro Jr. · 06-04-2007, 11:02 AM

the first one is fake, correct. second one late, third early

LugerVern · 06-04-2007, 06:24 PM

Thanks Pete!

I needed those pictures of the good ones!

I have no problem with reproductions of such things because they are becoming so hard to get and also expensive, for many this is the only way to have a representative magazine.

I urge anyone who is contemplating buying one of these magazines as original to first place a picture of it on the forum for review, in the past year I have seen no less than a half dozen fakes, some are obvious fakes and some are not.

Thanks Dante

I wasnÃ¢??t real sure if there were variations but I suspected there might be.

Vern

Pete Ebbink · 06-04-2007, 07:58 PM

BTW...the two photos I had posted with the "red" colored background are jpegs I got from one of the Navy Cabal fellows. I am pretty sure the owner feels those are legit...

The middle one is the one I plucked off of eBay and I think that was the more modern-day creation...as that seller has posted 3-4 on eBay over a 1 year period...some go for $ 80...others go for over $ 300...

GerColctor · 06-04-2007, 08:54 PM

All the time I have seen these "commerical" Luger mags on eBay, I thought most of them were real. Fortunately, I never bid on one, as I do not own a commerical Luger.

Thanks for posting this info.

Joe

Pete Ebbink · 06-04-2007, 08:59 PM

Vern,

I drug out my laptop PC on which I have other Luger photos...found this one for you.

I do not follow Navy stuff much, but I would bet it is a real one :

Big Norm · 06-05-2007, 11:25 AM

Good discussion. Personally, I think that the "9 Cal" wood bottoms have gone the way of the "Red 9" grips. There are so many fakes out there with so many of them very good, that I wouldn't count on the average collector getting an original. I have seen "Cal 9mm" wood bottoms selling at gun show for as little as $5.

A knowlegable collector might pay more attention to the stem and its parts then to the wood bottom. Watch to see how the metal nail/peg has been placed onto the metal and through the wood. Most counterfeiters will butcher the sides of the stems trying to put the nail/peg through and then flattening the heads. If you see that the job was messed up in that area, then you can be sure that the wood bottom has been at least replaced. While that is no assurance about the originality, warning signals should be apparent. Don't get carried away with emotion and pay a lot just for show purposes on your commercial Luger.

Another thing that I have thought about is the nail/peg itself. On at least the WW1 magazines, the nail/peg should be blacked. I may be corrected on this point, but I think that this part was hardened to prevent rust. I don't really know about post WW1 magazines but this is my belief on WW1 and earlier mags.

In summary, I wouldn't pay big buckos for a "9 Cal" mag or a "Red 9" set of grips. There are just too many good counterfeiters out there. If the price isn't too bad and you want your Luger to look good, then do it. But always remember that you are buying on emotion and show and not on fact.

Just my 2 cents worth of opinion.
Big Norm

06-03-2007, 12:26 AM	#1
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	Aluminum Cal 9mm Mag? I bet some one has already posted this, but there is an aluminum Cal 9mm magazine on eBay right now---$260 last I looked. Well, I was going to make a comment on this, but right now I am just speechless. Vern

06-04-2007, 07:08 AM	#4
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	Some Questions Could someone please post a clear picture of an original Cal 9mm magazine bottom? More than one example would be great! Are there legitimate variations in the script? Is there suppose to be a period after the Cal? What kind of plating should be on the tube? Has anyone ever counted the rings on the springs of these early 9mm magazines? Is there anything unique about the magazine follower? What type of wood was used? Was a particular type of oil used, or were they left plain? When were the last Cal 9mm magazines last made (1910)? Were there replacements made at some time, say in the 20Ã¢??s for the American or European post war market? I would like to see some pictures in the gallery that show a proper Cal 9mm magazine if someone would be so kind? I am pretty irritated at all the fakery; there are non destructive tests that can be done to sort out most fakes, but first we need to sort out exactly what we are looking for. Most of the answers to the above questions are found in books but rarely in one place. Thanks Vern

06-04-2007, 06:24 PM	#7
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	Thanks for posting pics Thanks Pete! I needed those pictures of the good ones! I have no problem with reproductions of such things because they are becoming so hard to get and also expensive, for many this is the only way to have a representative magazine. I urge anyone who is contemplating buying one of these magazines as original to first place a picture of it on the forum for review, in the past year I have seen no less than a half dozen fakes, some are obvious fakes and some are not. Thanks Dante I wasnÃ¢??t real sure if there were variations but I suspected there might be. Vern

06-04-2007, 08:54 PM	#9
GerColctor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: CT & FL Posts: 308 Thanks: 2 Thanked 40 Times in 27 Posts	All the time I have seen these "commerical" Luger mags on eBay, I thought most of them were real. Fortunately, I never bid on one, as I do not own a commerical Luger. Thanks for posting this info. Joe __________________ It is better to have lived a day as a tiger, then a thousand years as a lamb.

06-03-2007, 12:30 AM	#2
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...0%3D%26fvi%3D1 Maybe a practice, template piece...you see lots of phony wooden ones for sale...but those start with a real nice wooden M1900 magazine... Or some "craftsmen" I hear start with an 06/24 Bern wooden magazine and sand the bottom down a bit to get rid of the Bern "ridge" along the middle of the bottom...

06-03-2007, 11:18 AM	#3
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	LugerVern.....we're in the wrong business....

06-04-2007, 10:42 AM	#5
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Vern, Here are a couple of shots from bottom-views that Members have previously posted and one "spurious" one that appeared and sold on eBay for quite a bit of money. I will let you decide which one that one was... A LF member out of MO state used to publish a Luger parts list where he offered for sale repro Cal 9 m/m magazines...I imagine some of those may be being resold as "originals" in the wrong hands.

06-04-2007, 11:02 AM	#6
Dante Di Pietro Jr. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Maine Posts: 73 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	the first one is fake, correct. second one late, third early

06-04-2007, 07:58 PM	#8
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	BTW...the two photos I had posted with the "red" colored background are jpegs I got from one of the Navy Cabal fellows. I am pretty sure the owner feels those are legit... The middle one is the one I plucked off of eBay and I think that was the more modern-day creation...as that seller has posted 3-4 on eBay over a 1 year period...some go for $ 80...others go for over $ 300...

06-04-2007, 08:59 PM	#10
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Vern, I drug out my laptop PC on which I have other Luger photos...found this one for you. I do not follow Navy stuff much, but I would bet it is a real one :

06-05-2007, 11:25 AM	#11
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Good discussion. Personally, I think that the "9 Cal" wood bottoms have gone the way of the "Red 9" grips. There are so many fakes out there with so many of them very good, that I wouldn't count on the average collector getting an original. I have seen "Cal 9mm" wood bottoms selling at gun show for as little as $5. A knowlegable collector might pay more attention to the stem and its parts then to the wood bottom. Watch to see how the metal nail/peg has been placed onto the metal and through the wood. Most counterfeiters will butcher the sides of the stems trying to put the nail/peg through and then flattening the heads. If you see that the job was messed up in that area, then you can be sure that the wood bottom has been at least replaced. While that is no assurance about the originality, warning signals should be apparent. Don't get carried away with emotion and pay a lot just for show purposes on your commercial Luger. Another thing that I have thought about is the nail/peg itself. On at least the WW1 magazines, the nail/peg should be blacked. I may be corrected on this point, but I think that this part was hardened to prevent rust. I don't really know about post WW1 magazines but this is my belief on WW1 and earlier mags. In summary, I wouldn't pay big buckos for a "9 Cal" mag or a "Red 9" set of grips. There are just too many good counterfeiters out there. If the price isn't too bad and you want your Luger to look good, then do it. But always remember that you are buying on emotion and show and not on fact. Just my 2 cents worth of opinion. Big Norm