Pawn shop woes

edalpha · 06-23-2002, 02:29 PM

Hey guys, check this story out! The other day I found three P08s in a local pawn shop. One was an artilery model with all mismatched numbers selling for $1,800.00, the second one was a 1936 s/42 with a poor finish a mismatched toggle pin and wooden based mag. selling for $800.00, and the third one was a 1937 s/42 with a 96%plus finish but the toggle pin was silver and didn't even have a number on it. This one was selling for $1,400.00. Am I crazy or are these guys way out of line? Wouldn't these guns be considered shooters? If so, how do you tell these guys that what the got are overpriced shooters and still leave the store in one piece? Has anyone of you ever had success reasoning and dealing with shops like these?
ED

Aaron · 06-23-2002, 02:43 PM

When I encounter someone selling inferior Lugers at preposterous prices, I never attempt to "educate" him as to their actual value. More often than not, this seller knows exactly what he has and what it is really worth, and will just send me on my way. This person is a con artist who does not want to deal with informed collectors. He is waiting for that novice to come along who will fall for his line and buy his guns. Unfortunately that happens so frequently that he will continue his nefarious practices no matter what he is told.

Roadkill · 06-23-2002, 02:55 PM

Its not just the pawnshops, I just got back from visiting a flea market in the N. Ala hills, my wife stayed real close to me cause she was scared, (it was Deliverance with a Tijuana flavor, Junior Samples crossed with Pancho Villa, four wheel drive monster trucks with chickens & goats and confederate bumper stickers),anyway, I found the guns of course, there on the table amongst the chicken feathers and other junk is a .45 holster with a gun in it. I could tell by the butt it was an old high power, I eased up to an ancient gentleman and asked if I could look at the gun. Sure, he handed it to me, of course the other three bubbas standing around all stopped to watch, it was a very nice WA BHP, all matching, probably about 95% +, orig grips & mag, holster dtd 1944, I took out the mag, cleared the gun, locked the slide back (got a couple of ahhs with that), asked how much, ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS and he didn't stutter. I thanked him and left. Also found a 1902 Colt .32 asking price was $250 but the guy selling it looked like he just got out of the pen last week, still wearing the haircut & prison shoes. So its not just in your backyard

RK

Johnny Peppers · 06-23-2002, 02:56 PM

Aaron is absolutely correct in just politely handing the Lugers back to the shop owner and walking out. Nothing good will come of telling him how wrong he is. We encounter overpriced merchandise in all walks of life, and are under no obligation to educate the seller who has no desire to be educated. At least the problem with these Lugers is evident to anyone with a basic knowledge of Lugers. It is the faked, forged, and fantasy pieces that are the huge problem with Luger collecting today.

Doubs · 06-23-2002, 04:10 PM

It's interesting because I visited two pawn shops yesterday and had a different experience in each one.

In the first I spotted a Finn Mosin-Nagant model 91 rifle that I believed to have a Chatellerault receiver. (The first M-91 Mosin-Nagant rifles made for the Russians were made in France.) The 1940 Tikka barrel has an excellent bore and the rifle is well worth the small price I paid. The young man working there struck up a conversation because I mentioned I had a C&R license and he wasn't familiar with it. Then we got off onto Mosin-Nagant rifles and he wanted to know everything I could tell him. Obviously, he was interested in old military guns and was willing to learn. He's an exception and I'm sure he'll use the knowledge to price future MN's closer to their real value. This one was priced well under market value.

In the second, I ran into a young man in his early 20's who knew almost everything and what he didn't know, he was willing to improvise. He proudly showed me an 1855 Harper's Ferry rifled musket with a Maynard Tape mechanism. The barrel had been whacked off to carbine or musketoon length. When I pointed that out, he explained that both the barrel and the stock had been shortened for a small man who had served in the 21st VA Infantry Regiment. How he knew this, I was afraid to ask. It was obvious that he'd tell me anything he thought I wanted to hear in order to make a sale.

Pawn shops are a prime reason for "caveat emptor". I'm sure they're also the origin of many "facts" we hear that just aren't so!

Roadkill · 06-23-2002, 05:15 PM

Congrats on the purchase. Was this one a Finnish import? They shoot very well. I didn't know that about the 91s. How are they marked?
RK

Doubs · 06-23-2002, 09:05 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Roadkill:
<strong>Congrats on the purchase. Was this one a Finnish import? They shoot very well. I didn't know that about the 91s. How are they marked?
RK</strong><hr></blockquote>

RK, I'll try to answer your question tomorrow. My better half is dragging me off to see a movie. I'll also reply to your private message. Russian/Soviet/Soviet Bloc & Finn Mosin-Nagants are another of my interests. Not on a par with Lugers or Mausers quality-wise but certainly served well for many years.

06-23-2002, 02:29 PM	#1
edalpha User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida, "The Treasure Coast" Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Pawn shop woes Hey guys, check this story out! The other day I found three P08s in a local pawn shop. One was an artilery model with all mismatched numbers selling for $1,800.00, the second one was a 1936 s/42 with a poor finish a mismatched toggle pin and wooden based mag. selling for $800.00, and the third one was a 1937 s/42 with a 96%plus finish but the toggle pin was silver and didn't even have a number on it. This one was selling for $1,400.00. Am I crazy or are these guys way out of line? Wouldn't these guns be considered shooters? If so, how do you tell these guys that what the got are overpriced shooters and still leave the store in one piece? Has anyone of you ever had success reasoning and dealing with shops like these? ED

06-23-2002, 02:43 PM	#2
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	When I encounter someone selling inferior Lugers at preposterous prices, I never attempt to "educate" him as to their actual value. More often than not, this seller knows exactly what he has and what it is really worth, and will just send me on my way. This person is a con artist who does not want to deal with informed collectors. He is waiting for that novice to come along who will fall for his line and buy his guns. Unfortunately that happens so frequently that he will continue his nefarious practices no matter what he is told.

06-23-2002, 02:55 PM	#3
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Its not just the pawnshops, I just got back from visiting a flea market in the N. Ala hills, my wife stayed real close to me cause she was scared, (it was Deliverance with a Tijuana flavor, Junior Samples crossed with Pancho Villa, four wheel drive monster trucks with chickens & goats and confederate bumper stickers),anyway, I found the guns of course, there on the table amongst the chicken feathers and other junk is a .45 holster with a gun in it. I could tell by the butt it was an old high power, I eased up to an ancient gentleman and asked if I could look at the gun. Sure, he handed it to me, of course the other three bubbas standing around all stopped to watch, it was a very nice WA BHP, all matching, probably about 95% +, orig grips & mag, holster dtd 1944, I took out the mag, cleared the gun, locked the slide back (got a couple of ahhs with that), asked how much, ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS and he didn't stutter. I thanked him and left. Also found a 1902 Colt .32 asking price was $250 but the guy selling it looked like he just got out of the pen last week, still wearing the haircut & prison shoes. So its not just in your backyard RK

06-23-2002, 02:56 PM	#4
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Aaron is absolutely correct in just politely handing the Lugers back to the shop owner and walking out. Nothing good will come of telling him how wrong he is. We encounter overpriced merchandise in all walks of life, and are under no obligation to educate the seller who has no desire to be educated. At least the problem with these Lugers is evident to anyone with a basic knowledge of Lugers. It is the faked, forged, and fantasy pieces that are the huge problem with Luger collecting today.

06-23-2002, 04:10 PM	#5
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	It's interesting because I visited two pawn shops yesterday and had a different experience in each one. In the first I spotted a Finn Mosin-Nagant model 91 rifle that I believed to have a Chatellerault receiver. (The first M-91 Mosin-Nagant rifles made for the Russians were made in France.) The 1940 Tikka barrel has an excellent bore and the rifle is well worth the small price I paid. The young man working there struck up a conversation because I mentioned I had a C&R license and he wasn't familiar with it. Then we got off onto Mosin-Nagant rifles and he wanted to know everything I could tell him. Obviously, he was interested in old military guns and was willing to learn. He's an exception and I'm sure he'll use the knowledge to price future MN's closer to their real value. This one was priced well under market value. In the second, I ran into a young man in his early 20's who knew almost everything and what he didn't know, he was willing to improvise. He proudly showed me an 1855 Harper's Ferry rifled musket with a Maynard Tape mechanism. The barrel had been whacked off to carbine or musketoon length. When I pointed that out, he explained that both the barrel and the stock had been shortened for a small man who had served in the 21st VA Infantry Regiment. How he knew this, I was afraid to ask. It was obvious that he'd tell me anything he thought I wanted to hear in order to make a sale. Pawn shops are a prime reason for "caveat emptor". I'm sure they're also the origin of many "facts" we hear that just aren't so!

06-23-2002, 05:15 PM	#6
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Congrats on the purchase. Was this one a Finnish import? They shoot very well. I didn't know that about the 91s. How are they marked? RK

06-23-2002, 09:05 PM	#7
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	[quote]Originally posted by Roadkill: <strong>Congrats on the purchase. Was this one a Finnish import? They shoot very well. I didn't know that about the 91s. How are they marked? RK</strong><hr></blockquote> RK, I'll try to answer your question tomorrow. My better half is dragging me off to see a movie. I'll also reply to your private message. Russian/Soviet/Soviet Bloc & Finn Mosin-Nagants are another of my interests. Not on a par with Lugers or Mausers quality-wise but certainly served well for many years.