Sweet Luger...what's it worth?

whatthecrunchyo · 09-06-2012, 09:51 PM

Gents, I know someone who is selling a Simson & Suhl Luger dated 1914 with Nazi proofs. It is immaculate. 99% condition. It has matching magazine and all matching parts. It has the brown leather soft shell holster and capture papers from an airborne vet. What do you guys think the value is of one of these? The guy offered it for $2,700 but I thought that it was a little pricey for a WWI made Luger. Sorry no pics.

Ron Wood · 09-06-2012, 10:04 PM

It is worth approximately the same as Santa Claus' belt buckle. Neither one exists.

wayne8661 · 09-06-2012, 10:10 PM

Ron Please dont tell me Santa Clause isnt real?????????

whatthecrunchyo · 09-06-2012, 10:10 PM

What do you mean? I've held it. I could be off on the nazi marks...maybe it could have been pre-nazi Eagles?

Ben M. · 09-06-2012, 10:24 PM

a simson luger would never have a 1914 date on the chamber. It might be some old luger from WWI that someone placed a simson toggle link on. simson lugers were from the 1920 era. collectors would see this as a parts gun and price it very low in the shooter price range, i am afraid.

Edward Tinker · 09-06-2012, 10:25 PM

pictures would be needed / but there are NO 1914 dated Simson's

There ARE rework 1914's that might have a Simson toggle, there is a 1908 first issue with a Simson toggle in our book.

But, you want to be careful what you buy

Terry Tiell · 09-06-2012, 11:00 PM

Santa's not real?

Ron Wood · 09-06-2012, 11:26 PM

Santa is real, his belt buckle isn't...he wears suspenders.

mrerick · 09-07-2012, 10:33 AM

So, to be specific:

- I know someone who is selling a Simson & Suhl Luger dated 1914 with Nazi proofs.

As mentioned above, Simson reworked WW-I era Lugers and made about 12,000 new ones starting in the 1920s. The Nazi government came into existence in 1933, and started using their markings in the late 1930s. As with many Jewish owned firms, Simson was "taken over" by them in 1933. This combination never came out of a German factory that way either new or reworked.

- It is immaculate. 99% condition.

It would be if it was recently refinished, especially after all the post war embellishment. What you describe should have gone through two wars, and show it.

- It has matching magazine and all matching parts.

But it didn't get that way at the factory since no single factory could have created it across the Imperial, Weimar and Nazi eras.

- It has the brown leather soft shell holster

Original German Luger holsters are hard shell

- and capture papers from an airborne vet.

With a time machine?

- What do you guys think the value is of one of these?

Before the parts were re-marked and refinished, maybe $600. Now under $450.

- The guy offered it for $2,700 but I thought that it was a little pricey for a WWI made Luger.

You thought right, even though it was from three German eras and one post-war allied era.

- Sorry no pics.

Terry Tiell · 09-07-2012, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

Santa is real, his belt buckle isn't...he wears suspenders.

Oh, PHEW! You scared me for a minute there.

Terry Tiell · 09-07-2012, 10:57 AM

Mrerick, maybe it was just built really s-l-o-w-l-y that would explain everything.

OP, it sounds like someone is trying to blow smoke up your butt, you did the right thing asking these guys.

IMHO these are the most knowledgeable bunch of guys when it comes to the Luger since George invented it not to mention they're all more then willing to help everyone and anyone when it comes to Lugers.

wlyon · 09-07-2012, 12:36 PM

You got good advice. The worst thing you could do is not believe the above and buy it. And Ron Santa did have a big black belt so there. Bill

Ron Wood · 09-07-2012, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wlyon

And Ron Santa did have a big black belt so there. Bill

Yeah, but it was on his coat and he only wore it once a year.

Terry Tiell · 09-07-2012, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

Yeah, but it was on his coat and he only wore it once a year.

So that would make it a lightly use rare piece, I wonder what that would be worth?

whatthecrunchyo · 09-07-2012, 09:10 PM

Thanks a lot gents. Apparently I am so far out in left field that (finish sentence here).

Anyway, I will try to get pictures. I do have a 1940 code 42 Luger that is all matching but am definitely not a Luger aficionado. I am really confused right now so I'll try to get pictures soon. Either A, my eyes deceived me, or B, it is a rework/re-stamp/re-blue and this guy is totally BSing.

I'm quite curious now...should have taken pictures. I do know that when I looked, every single part matched and it did not appear to be refinished in anyway. I just don't get it?!

alanint · 09-07-2012, 10:40 PM

All kidding aside,
Be very cautious in what you invest in. Our group here has only your best interests in mind and if we kid around a bit, its only because what you were offered is so outlandish.

This site has the foremost Luger experts on the planet contributing, (of which I am little more than an acolite).
Listen, learn and save your dollars for something that is worth your investment.....

Mike B · 09-08-2012, 12:13 AM

Come on guys, I saw a Simson Artillery a couple of weeks back. Since artilleries were built only from 1914-1918, then a 1914 4" is certainly within the realm of possibility. I also heard that one of the great lakes is on the gulf of mexico.

Mike

mrerick · 09-08-2012, 10:51 AM

Mike,

And Reno, Nevada is West of Los Angeles... Right! (Actually, it is...)

Marc

Edward Tinker · 09-08-2012, 11:16 AM

I am not a buddy of saying, hey, its a rework

but these guns like this and the simson artillery (I would love to own that) are reworks

Simson received the 'official' ONLY maker and refub company in Germany in 1924, although they had been reworking guns since at least 1920 if 1919 - everyone was looking to make money from foreign sales

mrerick · 09-08-2012, 04:27 PM

Ed, is it likely that they would have put a "Simson" marked toggle on a rework if they had to replace this part?

Marc

09-06-2012, 09:51 PM	#1
whatthecrunchyo User Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 22 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Sweet Luger...what's it worth? Gents, I know someone who is selling a Simson & Suhl Luger dated 1914 with Nazi proofs. It is immaculate. 99% condition. It has matching magazine and all matching parts. It has the brown leather soft shell holster and capture papers from an airborne vet. What do you guys think the value is of one of these? The guy offered it for $2,700 but I thought that it was a little pricey for a WWI made Luger. Sorry no pics.

09-06-2012, 10:04 PM	#2
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,017 Thanks: 1,089 Thanked 5,162 Times in 1,699 Posts	It is worth approximately the same as Santa Claus' belt buckle. Neither one exists. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-06-2012, 10:25 PM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,927 Thanks: 2,026 Thanked 4,524 Times in 2,090 Posts	pictures would be needed / but there are NO 1914 dated Simson's There ARE rework 1914's that might have a Simson toggle, there is a 1908 first issue with a Simson toggle in our book. But, you want to be careful what you buy __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-06-2012, 11:00 PM	#7
Terry Tiell User Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: The Fascist State of Maryland Posts: 224 Thanks: 55 Thanked 26 Times in 14 Posts	Santa's not real? __________________ Trying to redo grand dads Luger the best I can.

09-06-2012, 11:26 PM	#8
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,017 Thanks: 1,089 Thanked 5,162 Times in 1,699 Posts	Santa is real, his belt buckle isn't...he wears suspenders. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-06-2012, 10:10 PM	#3
wayne8661 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kennett Square Pennsylvania Posts: 591 Thanks: 15 Thanked 334 Times in 104 Posts	Ron Please dont tell me Santa Clause isnt real?????????

09-06-2012, 10:24 PM	#5
Ben M. User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Retired to Naples, FL. Posts: 486 Thanks: 85 Thanked 121 Times in 81 Posts	a simson luger would never have a 1914 date on the chamber. It might be some old luger from WWI that someone placed a simson toggle link on. simson lugers were from the 1920 era. collectors would see this as a parts gun and price it very low in the shooter price range, i am afraid.

09-07-2012, 10:33 AM	#9
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,907 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,108 Times in 1,509 Posts	So, to be specific: - I know someone who is selling a Simson & Suhl Luger dated 1914 with Nazi proofs. As mentioned above, Simson reworked WW-I era Lugers and made about 12,000 new ones starting in the 1920s. The Nazi government came into existence in 1933, and started using their markings in the late 1930s. As with many Jewish owned firms, Simson was "taken over" by them in 1933. This combination never came out of a German factory that way either new or reworked. - It is immaculate. 99% condition. It would be if it was recently refinished, especially after all the post war embellishment. What you describe should have gone through two wars, and show it. - It has matching magazine and all matching parts. But it didn't get that way at the factory since no single factory could have created it across the Imperial, Weimar and Nazi eras. - It has the brown leather soft shell holster Original German Luger holsters are hard shell - and capture papers from an airborne vet. With a time machine? - What do you guys think the value is of one of these? Before the parts were re-marked and refinished, maybe $600. Now under $450. - The guy offered it for $2,700 but I thought that it was a little pricey for a WWI made Luger. You thought right, even though it was from three German eras and one post-war allied era. - Sorry no pics. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

09-07-2012, 10:57 AM	#11
Terry Tiell User Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: The Fascist State of Maryland Posts: 224 Thanks: 55 Thanked 26 Times in 14 Posts	Mrerick, maybe it was just built really s-l-o-w-l-y that would explain everything. OP, it sounds like someone is trying to blow smoke up your butt, you did the right thing asking these guys. IMHO these are the most knowledgeable bunch of guys when it comes to the Luger since George invented it not to mention they're all more then willing to help everyone and anyone when it comes to Lugers. __________________ Trying to redo grand dads Luger the best I can.

09-07-2012, 12:36 PM	#12
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,631 Thanks: 3,170 Thanked 2,555 Times in 954 Posts	You got good advice. The worst thing you could do is not believe the above and buy it. And Ron Santa did have a big black belt so there. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

09-07-2012, 09:10 PM	#15
whatthecrunchyo User Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 22 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thanks a lot gents. Apparently I am so far out in left field that (finish sentence here). Anyway, I will try to get pictures. I do have a 1940 code 42 Luger that is all matching but am definitely not a Luger aficionado. I am really confused right now so I'll try to get pictures soon. Either A, my eyes deceived me, or B, it is a rework/re-stamp/re-blue and this guy is totally BSing. I'm quite curious now...should have taken pictures. I do know that when I looked, every single part matched and it did not appear to be refinished in anyway. I just don't get it?!

09-07-2012, 10:40 PM	#16
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	All kidding aside, Be very cautious in what you invest in. Our group here has only your best interests in mind and if we kid around a bit, its only because what you were offered is so outlandish. This site has the foremost Luger experts on the planet contributing, (of which I am little more than an acolite). Listen, learn and save your dollars for something that is worth your investment.....

09-08-2012, 12:13 AM	#17
Mike B Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 979 Thanks: 1 Thanked 271 Times in 99 Posts	Come on guys, I saw a Simson Artillery a couple of weeks back. Since artilleries were built only from 1914-1918, then a 1914 4" is certainly within the realm of possibility. I also heard that one of the great lakes is on the gulf of mexico. Mike

09-08-2012, 10:51 AM	#18
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,907 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,108 Times in 1,509 Posts	Mike, And Reno, Nevada is West of Los Angeles... Right! (Actually, it is...) Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

09-08-2012, 11:16 AM	#19
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,927 Thanks: 2,026 Thanked 4,524 Times in 2,090 Posts	I am not a buddy of saying, hey, its a rework but these guns like this and the simson artillery (I would love to own that) are reworks Simson received the 'official' ONLY maker and refub company in Germany in 1924, although they had been reworking guns since at least 1920 if 1919 - everyone was looking to make money from foreign sales __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-08-2012, 04:27 PM	#20
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,907 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,108 Times in 1,509 Posts	Ed, is it likely that they would have put a "Simson" marked toggle on a rework if they had to replace this part? Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.