1911 Luger?

[John m.]

This gun came to me through my wife’s grandpa. He was a WWII veteran. The story goes... before he boarded a ship to come back home to the US he traded a pack of smokes for this gun. Yes I know it’s filthy. I will work on that. I was posting here to see if any of you can give me info on this gun. Thank you in advance.

[lugerholsterrepair]

1911 Erfurt. Unit marked. Someone will likely be along to tell us what unit. Wrong magazine. Should be a WW1 wood bottom double stamp Erfurt mag.

One of the pleasures in life is to take this beauty apart and gently clean and oil it. Hasn't been done for some time. Much to be seen on the inside. Unit marked 1911 Erfurts are a treasure. Glad to see it.

[John m.]

Thanks Jerry for your input. A quick question...is the holster true to this gun? Thanks again

[lugerholsterrepair]

No, The holster is American commercial not German military. It appears to be an Audley..not a model I am familiar with. An Audley will usually have a spring loaded trigger guard knuckle that holds the pistol in the holster. I can't see if this holster has it..
If it does, it will rub the trigger guard damaging the metal and finish. I don't like Audleys for this reason. metal on metal.

This pistol would have been mated with a full flap hardshell Imperial German Luger military holster dated the same as the pistol.


Here is a link to a WW1 holster of the type. https://www.ebay.com/itm/German-Impe...IAAOSwbK5foAAg


This eBay holster is dead as the magazine pouch is destroyed. But this type was used almost from the inception of the German Luger into the German Army until WW1 ended. at this time the style of the German Luger holster began to morph into some different variations and in around 1926 changed in important ways into the WW2 type.

[John m.]

Yes it is spring loaded and yes it has wear marks on the trigger guard. Well it sounds like I’m going to be looking for a clip and a holster.

[lugerholsterrepair]

John, You must change your nomenclature. A "clip" is NOT a magazine. A Luger has a Magazine.

[gunnertwo]

Erfurt had very limited production beginning in 1910 That year they made about 50. I see no suffix so that would be the 2,685 made at the start of 1911. If the holster has a metal clip on the interior do store the gun in it. Jerry is correct on the metal damage. Be very careful on removing the left grip panel, stress is placed on the wood near the area of the safety- it can easily chip or break off. There are You Tube videos on disassembly that will aid you in the cleaning. Don't use any abrasives in the cleaning. Give us some more pics after she's spiffed up. Thanks and welcome.

G2

[John m.]

Will do. Thanks again

[Doubs]

The unit mark should translate to: Foot Artillery Regiment 12, battalion 1, (Munitions Column), 3 Howitzer, weapon 13

I take that to mean it was issued to a munitions supply train assigned to the 12th Regiment of Foot Artillery, Howitzers, 1st Battalion, 3rd Battery, weapon number 13

There is a nearly identical listing for a 1911 DWM unit marking on page 32 of Jeff Noll's revised edition of his book on Imperial German unit markings. Page 40 shows two nearly identical unit markings on 1911 Erfurts.

[ithacaartist]

Mis-matched extractor

[John m.]

Thank you all for the replies.
The mis-matched extractor. How bad is that ?
And how hard to find matching number one.
The value is a concern but not the determining
Factor where it will end up. Thanks again.

[foxdoublegunner]

John,
You will have a lot of fun taking the pistol apart, cleaning it up and researching the history of the pistol and the associated unit. My first luger was a unit marked 1912 Erfurt. I have spent many hours scouring the internet for information about the unit history and key personnel. I was able to get the MilitarPass of the unit Feldwebel from a guy in Germany several years ago and now have it displayed with other WW 1 US and Imperial German field gear.

Enjoy it,
Ricardo

[John m.]

Thanks foxdoublegunner, I look forward to all you said.

[tomaustin]

damn ithacaartist, this weapon is 100+ years old..i am surprised it even exists....and maybe, just maybe, the last user of this weapon made a field repair in some muddy hole in that war.....I take them like they come...wouldn't change a thing.....Tom

[Lugerdoc]

John, Sorry no #85 Imperial marked Erfurt extractor in stock, but do have an exc Imperial inspector marked, unnumbered one available @$60 and also have an exc unnumbered double (high & low) Erfurt mag in stock @$175 + S&H. Tom the Lugerdoc

[Edward Tinker]

I don't have an extractor in that number (I looked, have a few extra parts)
Ref cleaning it - LESS is better.
Use soft cloth and oil to start with. I use (and many people will object), I use 0000 steel wool, 0000 bronze wool is even better , but less cleaning is better than over cleaning.

Also, be careful in removing the grips, sometimes they stick and they will chip.

Welcome - I have an audley or two holsters, I keep them as examples, but don't put a luger inside.

Ed

[lugerholsterrepair]

Extractors break. That's why shooting an all matching Luger pistol is risky. On most collectable pistols most collectors consider ANY mis matched part to be a fly in your soup. On a fare unit marked pistol it's something I could live with. There are much worse conditions like a re blue. Or a swapped out major part. Or a name scratched into the finish. Just put it out of your mind. No biggie until you want to sell. then the buyer will use it to try to lower the price.

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by tomaustin

damn ithacaartist, this weapon is 100+ years old..i am surprised it even exists....and maybe, just maybe, the last user of this weapon made a field repair in some muddy hole in that war.....I take them like they come...wouldn't change a thing.....Tom

I'd be happy enough with it, too. It's a family heirloom, most of all There are worse ways, as mentioned, a pistol can have its value as a collectible diminished. Since it's virtually impossible to tell when and by whom the extractor came to be installed, all we're left with is conjecture. There are varying degrees of "not all matching," from Frankenluger/mix-master to "almost matching," like this one... but only one state that we'd call "all matching" !

[John m.]

This pistol has not been cleaned for quite some time.
Looks like the whole firing pin assembly was changed out.
My “guess” it was faster to change the hole firing pin assembly
Then the extractor. Reason I say this, I do believe this pistol has not been touched sense 1945 or before. To me l love it the way it is.
But I will be combing the internet for years to come looking for a #85 firing pin assembly. LOL.
Ps. love all the info on this site I’ll catch myself reading for hours.

[Doubs]

The breechblock and firing pin have been changed and the grips have been replaced. Considering that the extractor serial number matches the breechblock, I'd say the replacement was as a complete unit. The firing pin is an improvement as it has the flutes for debris to pass through. The original firing pin would have been without flutes.

Your Erfurt is 109 years old and has seen a lot of service. It's not surprising that parts have been replaced. It's just part of the gun's history. As a family heirloom, that will not matter one bit... nor should it. It was your grandfather's gun and that's what's important. Record what you know about it for future generations.