DWM P08 Mixmaster, opinions requested

Tinplatejeff · 03-01-2016, 07:45 PM

I've been wanting a shooter P08 and recently purchased this one. It came from Federal Firearms in Delaware. The proprietor Chris is a first class gentleman and a pleasure to do business with. This P08 came from a collection he was selling for a widow and included many vintage firearms. I paid approximately $800.00 for it.

Here is what I know: The upper (serial number 7519 a block) appears to be matching and the lower (serial number 4281 a block) the same, but different from each other. It is a 9mm, I checked the barrel and chamber. No date over the chamber.

Here's what I would like to know: What vintage is the upper and what vintage is the lower? Is it all made by DWM or by? What are the proof marks, Imperial military or what? Has the chamber date been removed or not?

Other thoughts and/or opinions welcome.

Note, I did not have time today to do a complete field strip. More pictures will follow tomorrow.

Thanks

Edward Tinker · 03-01-2016, 07:56 PM

The upper is from a 1908 model (pre-1910 if I remember right) - as the acceptance and proofs are on the left.

The frame is harder to judge, as it could be from a lot of DWM's or even early Mausers - we could narrow it down, but not much I think. Perhaps someone will see something I missed.

Ed

kurusu · 03-02-2016, 05:51 AM

The lack of date over the chamber makes it a 1908 or 1909 production, dated chambers started in 1910. The side plate is consistent with early production marked in the commercial manner.

alanint · 03-02-2016, 09:56 AM

The bottom has no Mauser hump and appears to be an Alphabet commercial frame.

Ron Wood · 03-02-2016, 10:04 AM

The upper is early military, a 1908 First Issue made in 1909. I have no idea about the lower except that it post dates 1913.

DavidJayUden · 03-02-2016, 10:06 AM

Is that a horn mag. bottom?
dju

Sergio Natali · 03-02-2016, 10:26 AM

The frame should have belonged to an Alphabet Commercial Luger.
Nice gun even if it's a mix of at least two Lugers.

Lugerdoc · 03-02-2016, 11:23 AM

If you plan to shoot 9mm ammo, you may want to check the recoil spring in the frame, that it has at least 19 coils, as most Alpha commericals were 7.65mmP and only had 17 turns; to light for 9mm. TH

Tinplatejeff · 03-02-2016, 12:41 PM

Thanks for all the replies so far. I really appreciate it.

More pictures after field stripping.

Additional questions:

About the frame possibly being an Alphabet Commercial, I thought no "a" blocks for those, am I wrong? And I am correct that it is "a", true?

What do the all those letters and markings under the grips on the frame signify?

What does the "B G" near the trigger on the frame mean?

What about the "v" on the firing pin? No other markings on it.

What type of magazine is this? I can find no markings on it whatsoever.

lugerholsterrepair · 03-02-2016, 02:39 PM

O must compliment yout photo skills! Nice. The mag looks to be a Mexican one of low quality. You need a Mecgar for shooting.

kurusu · 03-02-2016, 03:39 PM

Despite not being a true "collectible " I really wouldn't use this one as a shooter.

My 2 cents.

DonVoigt · 03-02-2016, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kurusu

Despite not being a true "collectible " I really wouldn't use this one as a shooter.

My 2 cents.

I have the opposite reaction,
if it is not a shooter, what is it for?

I doubt he will hurt the piece in any way by firing "normal" 9mm ammo.

Just my two cents, too!

kurusu · 03-02-2016, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

I have the opposite reaction,
if it is not a shooter, what is it for?

I doubt he will hurt the piece in any way by firing "normal" 9mm ammo.

Just my two cents, too!

I would rather use an all matching 41 BYF as a shooter. And if anything breaks. Replace it.

Here's your change.

Tinplatejeff · 03-02-2016, 07:15 PM

I'm torn on shooting it or not. I'm quite enamored with its appearance. It really speaks to me. It must of seen so much history.

Nomadr · 03-02-2016, 07:22 PM

Shoot IT!

Bob

P08Leder · 03-02-2016, 07:32 PM

It is a gun.
It is designed to be shot.

mrerick · 03-02-2016, 08:10 PM

Clean it, lubricate it and stabilize the active corrosion (well oiled 0000 steel wool on an oiled blued surface).

The marks you see on the frame are production inspection marks that were applied as it was manufactured and moved from step to step. They reflect the manufacture step and gauged inspection of various workers.

You are correct. It is an "a" suffix serial number, and there were no Alphabet Commercial DWM guns in an "a" block. It went from "i" to "t" IIRC.

The "v" on the firing pin makes me wonder if it's a Swiss with a Vogelsang inspection mark. Never seen the "B G" marks like that near the trigger.

lugerholsterrepair · 03-02-2016, 09:37 PM

It is a gun.
It is designed to be shot. Yes..Last summer I took out my Imperial Navy stocked 6 inch Luger and in the first magazine I blew out the back of the bolt with Winchester white box. I had been shooting this pistol for years. Not that much. It's more of an exhibition shooter. Just took out a divot but it let loose the firing pin and stopped the pistol in it's tracks. Killed the bolt. Probably the 5th or 6th Luger I have seen fail during my shooting due to broken parts. My Navy is a shooter so I just replaced the bolt and went back to the range. But Luger's are NOT infallible. They can and DO break. Just so you know.

Tinplatejeff · 03-02-2016, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair

The mag looks to be a Mexican one of low quality. You need a Mecgar for shooting.

Pardon my ignorance, but when were Mexican magazines made?

Aftermarket I assume?

lugerholsterrepair · 03-02-2016, 10:15 PM

Jeff, I don't really know when Mexican mags were made. I guess they were made for import into the USA? Usually if you see a pretty poorly made mag it's likely to be a Mexican one. A lot of times it has Mexico or made in Mexico on them. It's just a guess...your mag may also be Danish. Just don't look German to me.

03-01-2016, 07:45 PM	#1
Tinplatejeff User Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Indiana Posts: 68 Thanks: 77 Thanked 44 Times in 23 Posts	DWM P08 Mixmaster, opinions requested I've been wanting a shooter P08 and recently purchased this one. It came from Federal Firearms in Delaware. The proprietor Chris is a first class gentleman and a pleasure to do business with. This P08 came from a collection he was selling for a widow and included many vintage firearms. I paid approximately $800.00 for it. Here is what I know: The upper (serial number 7519 a block) appears to be matching and the lower (serial number 4281 a block) the same, but different from each other. It is a 9mm, I checked the barrel and chamber. No date over the chamber. Here's what I would like to know: What vintage is the upper and what vintage is the lower? Is it all made by DWM or by? What are the proof marks, Imperial military or what? Has the chamber date been removed or not? Other thoughts and/or opinions welcome. Note, I did not have time today to do a complete field strip. More pictures will follow tomorrow. Thanks

03-01-2016, 07:56 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	The upper is from a 1908 model (pre-1910 if I remember right) - as the acceptance and proofs are on the left. The frame is harder to judge, as it could be from a lot of DWM's or even early Mausers - we could narrow it down, but not much I think. Perhaps someone will see something I missed. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

03-02-2016, 10:04 AM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	The upper is early military, a 1908 First Issue made in 1909. I have no idea about the lower except that it post dates 1913. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

03-02-2016, 10:26 AM	#7
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	The frame should have belonged to an Alphabet Commercial Luger. Nice gun even if it's a mix of at least two Lugers. __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

03-02-2016, 11:23 AM	#8
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	If you plan to shoot 9mm ammo, you may want to check the recoil spring in the frame, that it has at least 19 coils, as most Alpha commericals were 7.65mmP and only had 17 turns; to light for 9mm. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

03-02-2016, 05:51 AM	#3
kurusu User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,225 Thanks: 2,679 Thanked 929 Times in 509 Posts	The lack of date over the chamber makes it a 1908 or 1909 production, dated chambers started in 1910. The side plate is consistent with early production marked in the commercial manner.

03-02-2016, 09:56 AM	#4
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	The bottom has no Mauser hump and appears to be an Alphabet commercial frame.

03-02-2016, 10:06 AM	#6
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Is that a horn mag. bottom? dju

03-02-2016, 12:41 PM	#9
Tinplatejeff User Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Indiana Posts: 68 Thanks: 77 Thanked 44 Times in 23 Posts	Thanks for all the replies so far. I really appreciate it. More pictures after field stripping. Additional questions: About the frame possibly being an Alphabet Commercial, I thought no "a" blocks for those, am I wrong? And I am correct that it is "a", true? What do the all those letters and markings under the grips on the frame signify? What does the "B G" near the trigger on the frame mean? What about the "v" on the firing pin? No other markings on it. What type of magazine is this? I can find no markings on it whatsoever. Last edited by Tinplatejeff; 03-02-2016 at 07:12 PM.

03-02-2016, 02:39 PM	#10
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	O must compliment yout photo skills! Nice. The mag looks to be a Mexican one of low quality. You need a Mecgar for shooting. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-02-2016, 03:39 PM	#11
kurusu User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,225 Thanks: 2,679 Thanked 929 Times in 509 Posts	Despite not being a true "collectible " I really wouldn't use this one as a shooter. My 2 cents.

03-02-2016, 07:15 PM	#14
Tinplatejeff User Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Indiana Posts: 68 Thanks: 77 Thanked 44 Times in 23 Posts	I'm torn on shooting it or not. I'm quite enamored with its appearance. It really speaks to me. It must of seen so much history.

03-02-2016, 07:22 PM	#15
Nomadr Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 276 Thanks: 16 Thanked 28 Times in 22 Posts	Shoot IT! Bob

03-02-2016, 07:32 PM	#16
P08Leder User Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 77 Thanks: 8 Thanked 43 Times in 18 Posts	It is a gun. It is designed to be shot.

03-02-2016, 08:10 PM	#17
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Clean it, lubricate it and stabilize the active corrosion (well oiled 0000 steel wool on an oiled blued surface). The marks you see on the frame are production inspection marks that were applied as it was manufactured and moved from step to step. They reflect the manufacture step and gauged inspection of various workers. You are correct. It is an "a" suffix serial number, and there were no Alphabet Commercial DWM guns in an "a" block. It went from "i" to "t" IIRC. The "v" on the firing pin makes me wonder if it's a Swiss with a Vogelsang inspection mark. Never seen the "B G" marks like that near the trigger. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

03-02-2016, 09:37 PM	#18
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	It is a gun. It is designed to be shot. Yes..Last summer I took out my Imperial Navy stocked 6 inch Luger and in the first magazine I blew out the back of the bolt with Winchester white box. I had been shooting this pistol for years. Not that much. It's more of an exhibition shooter. Just took out a divot but it let loose the firing pin and stopped the pistol in it's tracks. Killed the bolt. Probably the 5th or 6th Luger I have seen fail during my shooting due to broken parts. My Navy is a shooter so I just replaced the bolt and went back to the range. But Luger's are NOT infallible. They can and DO break. Just so you know. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-02-2016, 10:15 PM	#20
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Jeff, I don't really know when Mexican mags were made. I guess they were made for import into the USA? Usually if you see a pretty poorly made mag it's likely to be a Mexican one. A lot of times it has Mexico or made in Mexico on them. It's just a guess...your mag may also be Danish. Just don't look German to me. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."