First luger! 1920 DWM - Page 2

Guardian1fox2 · 03-22-2014, 12:49 PM

Okay awesome. I'm gonna post pics asap. Having computer issues at the moment :-/

Don M · 03-23-2014, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

Chamber date is 1920

I can't be sure but the 1920 looks more like the 1920 government property stamp than the manufacture date. The markings on the right side of the receiver should help determine if it is really a manufacture date.

Guardian1fox2 · 04-03-2014, 10:25 PM

hey guys. really sorry it took so long to get these photos. ended up having to get a whole new computer as the one i was using crapped out on me. finally, without further a due....the pics everyone requested. maybe someone can help me make since of all these marking and such! someone told me in town it was fake and then offered to buy it.....haha. another guy told me it could be a commercial that was reworked for military use. not sure. but here you go! thanks for everything guys, i appreciate it! you can see the stamp on the receiver in one of the pics.

alanint · 04-04-2014, 05:08 AM

Based on the new photos I would agree with Don that the 1920 is a property stamp and not a chamber date. The nazi proof you mention, to my eyes, just looks like pitting that ended up looking somewhat like a nazi waffenampt.
Also, nobody has mentioned the cleaning rod-oiler from your first photo. If authentic, that alone is worth a couple hundred bucks.

Patronen · 04-04-2014, 07:50 AM

It also looks as if your takedown lever has been bent up a bit. Possibly at one point either do to improper knowledge on a persons part with the takedown operation or it was bent to help with fitting the different side plate.

Guardian1fox2 · 04-04-2014, 08:39 AM

No the proof stamp is real. Hard to get a pic of. It's upside down which is weird. But it's there. Isn't it odd tho it has commercial emblems and the property stamp? I'll try to get a better pic with my mag glass. I can't make out numbers underneath.

Guardian1fox2 · 04-04-2014, 08:40 AM

I'll get a better pic of cleaning rod. The end is an oiler, pretty neat. It's all wrapped up in a very old rag.

Guardian1fox2 · 04-04-2014, 08:42 AM

Also has the imperial eagle on the barrel. Just odd to me it has conflicting emblems it seems. Unless it's common...I don't know much lol

318is_Parabellum · 04-04-2014, 10:12 AM

Take a close up picture with a high resolution digital camera, not an I-potato (phone). Cell phone cameras suck.

It's looking like the "proof mark" may be very similar to the one I've posted below, which is a Nazi-era Hza proof of a depot-level rework. Your photo is actually pretty decent, but for positive ID, you need to get a good, sharp, close-up image. The higher the resolution, the better, so that one can 'zoom in', and really get a good look. My photo below was taken with a 14.1 megapixel digital camera. My photos are only 'OK', at best, but they serve the purpose!

Here is an example of what you need to do:

Guardian1fox2 · 04-04-2014, 01:08 PM

Okay, here is another pic of the stamp.
unfortunately i do not own a camera besides the one on my phone. i tried to take as best a pic as i could though. it was a very large picture and i re-sized it down trying not to lose the definition. let me know what yall think. thanks!

318is_Parabellum · 04-04-2014, 08:26 PM

That pic is better. I can definitely tell that it appears to be a Nazi-era depot proof. Can you use a magnifying glass or a jewelers' loupe and make out the letters and numbers that are in the arc below (what's presumably) the swastika?

It does look remarkably like an Hza firing proof, like on my example I posted. The primary caveat here being that I am far from being "an expert". Just another interested collector!

Guardian1fox2 · 04-04-2014, 10:20 PM

Haha thanks! I'll see if I can find one. My next question is I guess, how much would this gun be worth? If the oiler was original as well. Bout to upload a pic of it. Just wish I could learn a little more about it. I don't understand the commercial stamps along with government property stamps..

Guardian1fox2 · 04-06-2014, 03:06 PM

I was told today, this could be a rare "commercial military" luger. Said they read on them in a world of lugers book or something. Anyone heard of this?

Ron Wood · 04-06-2014, 03:16 PM

The "Commercial Military" Luger variation is a relatively scarce item, but it is WWI vintage and bears unique triple Crown/X proofs. Your Luger is not one of these.

Guardian1fox2 · 04-06-2014, 04:20 PM

Well did the normally reissue commercial lugers for military use?

318is_Parabellum · 04-06-2014, 04:32 PM

We need more detailed pics, with close-ups of every external marking for a definitive ID.

My suggestion for you is to go to your local pawnshop and pick up a used digital camera ($50 to $75), so you can get some better pics!

It's almost impossible to make a positive ID on a non-obvious pistol such as yours with only a few I-potato (cell phone) pics to go by!

ETA: I can't (and probably not even the experts here) tell if your pistol is a rework or just a parts gun at this point. Could mean the difference between a "shooter" worth $700, or a collectible with some 'history' worth $1200!

ETA2: At any rate, you seem to have gotten some cool accessories along with your luger!

ETA3: After taking a closer look at your earlier pics, and based on the Hza-type proof, this gun *may be* a Nazi-era rework. That's my best guess at this point. Please don't assume my tentative ID is anything close to definitive. Again, I'm just another interested collector, and far from being an "expert". Perhaps with some more photos, the true experts may chime in with some more authoritative information.

Don M · 04-06-2014, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

The "Commercial Military" Luger variation is a relatively scarce item, but it is WWI vintage and bears unique triple Crown/X proofs.

Ron, not all commercial/military Lugers have the triple C/X acceptances. See http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=32016.

Guardian1fox2 · 04-06-2014, 05:44 PM

Okay. Girlfriend just told me she had a good canon camera in her trunk, gonna take some pics and post guys!

ChrisLL · 04-06-2014, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian1fox2

Okay. Girlfriend just told me she had a good canon camera in her trunk, gonna take some pics and post guys!

Looking forward to photos, thanks; but in the meantime ... congratulations!

Chris

Edward Tinker · 04-06-2014, 06:23 PM

It is a commercial that went into military, perhaps even police service. Not rare, just a variation and although a bit uncommon there are others like it.

I think it was a police that never received a sear or mag safety, many of them were purchased as commercial and then placed into service.

Looks like a Portuguese oiler, worth $100-$125 / sometimes more, but not a lot more...

04-03-2014, 10:25 PM	#23
Guardian1fox2 User Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Lake Charles, LA. Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	hey guys. really sorry it took so long to get these photos. ended up having to get a whole new computer as the one i was using crapped out on me. finally, without further a due....the pics everyone requested. maybe someone can help me make since of all these marking and such! someone told me in town it was fake and then offered to buy it.....haha. another guy told me it could be a commercial that was reworked for military use. not sure. but here you go! thanks for everything guys, i appreciate it! you can see the stamp on the receiver in one of the pics. Attached Thumbnails

04-04-2014, 07:50 AM	#25
Patronen User Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 312 Thanks: 335 Thanked 93 Times in 70 Posts	It also looks as if your takedown lever has been bent up a bit. Possibly at one point either do to improper knowledge on a persons part with the takedown operation or it was bent to help with fitting the different side plate. __________________ Dave

04-04-2014, 10:12 AM	#29
318is_Parabellum User Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: West Virginia Posts: 130 Thanks: 80 Thanked 75 Times in 31 Posts	Take a close up picture with a high resolution digital camera, not an I-potato (phone). Cell phone cameras suck. It's looking like the "proof mark" may be very similar to the one I've posted below, which is a Nazi-era Hza proof of a depot-level rework. Your photo is actually pretty decent, but for positive ID, you need to get a good, sharp, close-up image. The higher the resolution, the better, so that one can 'zoom in', and really get a good look. My photo below was taken with a 14.1 megapixel digital camera. My photos are only 'OK', at best, but they serve the purpose! Here is an example of what you need to do: Attached Thumbnails

04-04-2014, 01:08 PM	#30
Guardian1fox2 User Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Lake Charles, LA. Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Okay, here is another pic of the stamp. unfortunately i do not own a camera besides the one on my phone. i tried to take as best a pic as i could though. it was a very large picture and i re-sized it down trying not to lose the definition. let me know what yall think. thanks! Attached Thumbnails

04-06-2014, 03:16 PM	#34
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	The "Commercial Military" Luger variation is a relatively scarce item, but it is WWI vintage and bears unique triple Crown/X proofs. Your Luger is not one of these. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

03-22-2014, 12:49 PM	#21
Guardian1fox2 User Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Lake Charles, LA. Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Okay awesome. I'm gonna post pics asap. Having computer issues at the moment :-/

04-04-2014, 05:08 AM	#24
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Based on the new photos I would agree with Don that the 1920 is a property stamp and not a chamber date. The nazi proof you mention, to my eyes, just looks like pitting that ended up looking somewhat like a nazi waffenampt. Also, nobody has mentioned the cleaning rod-oiler from your first photo. If authentic, that alone is worth a couple hundred bucks.

04-04-2014, 08:39 AM	#26
Guardian1fox2 User Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Lake Charles, LA. Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	No the proof stamp is real. Hard to get a pic of. It's upside down which is weird. But it's there. Isn't it odd tho it has commercial emblems and the property stamp? I'll try to get a better pic with my mag glass. I can't make out numbers underneath.

04-04-2014, 08:40 AM	#27
Guardian1fox2 User Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Lake Charles, LA. Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I'll get a better pic of cleaning rod. The end is an oiler, pretty neat. It's all wrapped up in a very old rag.

04-04-2014, 08:42 AM	#28
Guardian1fox2 User Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Lake Charles, LA. Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Also has the imperial eagle on the barrel. Just odd to me it has conflicting emblems it seems. Unless it's common...I don't know much lol

04-04-2014, 08:26 PM	#31
318is_Parabellum User Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: West Virginia Posts: 130 Thanks: 80 Thanked 75 Times in 31 Posts	That pic is better. I can definitely tell that it appears to be a Nazi-era depot proof. Can you use a magnifying glass or a jewelers' loupe and make out the letters and numbers that are in the arc below (what's presumably) the swastika? It does look remarkably like an Hza firing proof, like on my example I posted. The primary caveat here being that I am far from being "an expert". Just another interested collector!

04-04-2014, 10:20 PM	#32
Guardian1fox2 User Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Lake Charles, LA. Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Haha thanks! I'll see if I can find one. My next question is I guess, how much would this gun be worth? If the oiler was original as well. Bout to upload a pic of it. Just wish I could learn a little more about it. I don't understand the commercial stamps along with government property stamps..

04-06-2014, 03:06 PM	#33
Guardian1fox2 User Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Lake Charles, LA. Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I was told today, this could be a rare "commercial military" luger. Said they read on them in a world of lugers book or something. Anyone heard of this?

04-06-2014, 04:20 PM	#35
Guardian1fox2 User Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Lake Charles, LA. Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Well did the normally reissue commercial lugers for military use?

04-06-2014, 04:32 PM	#36
318is_Parabellum User Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: West Virginia Posts: 130 Thanks: 80 Thanked 75 Times in 31 Posts	We need more detailed pics, with close-ups of every external marking for a definitive ID. My suggestion for you is to go to your local pawnshop and pick up a used digital camera ($50 to $75), so you can get some better pics! It's almost impossible to make a positive ID on a non-obvious pistol such as yours with only a few I-potato (cell phone) pics to go by! ETA: I can't (and probably not even the experts here) tell if your pistol is a rework or just a parts gun at this point. Could mean the difference between a "shooter" worth $700, or a collectible with some 'history' worth $1200! ETA2: At any rate, you seem to have gotten some cool accessories along with your luger! ETA3: After taking a closer look at your earlier pics, and based on the Hza-type proof, this gun may be a Nazi-era rework. That's my best guess at this point. Please don't assume my tentative ID is anything close to definitive. Again, I'm just another interested collector, and far from being an "expert". Perhaps with some more photos, the true experts may chime in with some more authoritative information.

04-06-2014, 05:44 PM	#38
Guardian1fox2 User Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Lake Charles, LA. Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Okay. Girlfriend just told me she had a good canon camera in her trunk, gonna take some pics and post guys!

04-06-2014, 06:23 PM	#40
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	It is a commercial that went into military, perhaps even police service. Not rare, just a variation and although a bit uncommon there are others like it. I think it was a police that never received a sear or mag safety, many of them were purchased as commercial and then placed into service. Looks like a Portuguese oiler, worth $100-$125 / sometimes more, but not a lot more... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV