I'm new and I need some information please.

NoncomRetired · 12-04-2012, 07:01 PM

I purchased my first Luger today to add to a collection. I like police used pistols mainly. This one, 1915 is quite nice, 97-98% w/90% straw. All numbers match except magazine but it is a period wood based mag. It was a rework adding the sear safety.
it has all the military proof marks on the reciever but while cleaning it, I came across what I think is a ReichAdler mark on the left side of the toggle. I have looked at your luger proof marks and from the one I can identfy with, it's a Mauser toggle mark and this one I have is a DWM. I first thought that sometime during the Nazi time the toggle was replaced but looking at it, I don't think it has. The matching number 11 is still on top. So!!! what are the opinions of you that know more than I do about Lugers?

Much appreciated. I have attached a couple of photo, the best I could do.

Edward Tinker · 12-04-2012, 07:21 PM

please show full left, full right, top of the gun, any markings

All we can say right now is that the breach block was replaced or proofed during the nazi period - does it have numbers underneath it?

NoncomRetired · 12-04-2012, 07:29 PM

I'll take some more shots...be right back.

skeeter4206 · 12-04-2012, 07:33 PM

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I aint no expert by no means, but its possible that the luger went through a rearmament some where along the way and was replaced. I have a Erfurt police luger with a part DMW toggle and a simpson marked rear toggle. But all have been restamped to match the original serail number. Maybe this can help, but I aint 100% positive. I know there are others here that are more qulaified to answer this question.

So... Im curious just how off I am

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skeeter4206 · 12-04-2012, 07:46 PM

A simpson side plate. What gave that away, Im curious

NoncomRetired · 12-04-2012, 07:46 PM

NoncomRetired · 12-04-2012, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

please show full left, full right, top of the gun, any markings

All we can say right now is that the breach block was replaced or proofed during the nazi period - does it have numbers underneath it?

It has the ser number and under that small cased script 'a' and bottom end of barrel.

mrerick · 12-04-2012, 08:08 PM

NonComRetired... I mixed up the two pistols posted onto this thread. Deleted my prior posting... On second look, the other pistol has probably has an Erfurt side plate...

Your pistol has both the sear safety and the magazine safety. That is unusual to find. Most of the magazine safeties were removed. Yours looks to be in very good condition except for the chip from the grip, which is a large one.

Get in touch with Hugh Clark. He has the skill to repair grips like this.

The breech block replacement would have been after 1933 to get that proof eagle. Is the firing pin fluted? If so, it was replaced with a later part.

Marc

skeeter4206 · 12-04-2012, 08:12 PM

Its a beautiful gun. looking at the pictures the link between the breech block and center link looks like it could have some scarred up areas around the circumference of the toggle pin hole. Its hard to tell through the pics though.

NoncomRetired · 12-04-2012, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrerick

NonComRetired... I mixed up the two pistols posted onto this thread. Deleted my prior posting... On second look, the other pistol has probably has an Erfurt side plate...

Your pistol has both the sear safety and the magazine safety. That is unusual to find. Most of the magazine safeties were removed. Yours looks to be in very good condition except for the chip from the grip, which is a large one.

Get in touch with Hugh Clark. He has the skill to repair grips like this.

The breech block replacement would have been after 1933 to get that proof eagle. Is the firing pin fluted? If so, it was replaced with a later part.

Marc

Is the chip not a cut out to accommodate the mag safety?

With what you see, no reissue army marks, would it have been a police issue from end WWI to end of WWII, do you think and then proofed for the nazi period. There is no police unit markings but it still has the WWI MG unit markings on the grip strap.

I haven't broke it down yet to check the firing pin.

NoncomRetired · 12-04-2012, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skeeter4206

Its a beautiful gun. looking at the pictures the link between the breech block and center link looks like it could have some scarred up areas around the circumference of the toggle pin hole. Its hard to tell through the pics though.

Can't see any scaring on top at all. Hardly any scaring on the gun at all. One side of a grip is a worn spot but on the metal, some holster wear but that's all.

mrerick · 12-04-2012, 08:52 PM

The chip I was talking about is in the area at the top rear of the left grip near the gold safety lever that is broken off, exposing the base of the safety lever.

Marc

NoncomRetired · 12-04-2012, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrerick

The chip I was talking about is in the area at the top rear of the left grip near the gold safety lever that is broken off, exposing the base of the safety lever.

Marc

OH!! Yes, I see now says the blind man!!! Need to get that fixed for sure. Thanks

Edward Tinker · 12-04-2012, 10:06 PM

I see a 1915 DWM army luger that later received a mag and sear safety; this would have been after 1933 to around 1936 and not all police guns received the mag safety.

In 1937 it was decided that mag safeties were not working out and were deactivated, some were cut like yours, some were totally removed. The grips on many guns will show a 'chipped' area there, that is correct (I will have to look and see where yours is chipped)

Edward Tinker · 12-04-2012, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skeeter4206

A simpson side plate. What gave that away, Im curious

Sometimes its best not to show another gun in the same thread

NoncomRetired · 12-04-2012, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

I see a 1915 DWM army luger that later received a mag and sear safety; this would have been after 1933 to around 1936 and not all police guns received the mag safety.

In 1937 it was decided that mag safeties were not working out and were deactivated, some were cut like yours, some were totally removed. The grips on many guns will show a 'chipped' area there, that is correct (I will have to look and see where yours is chipped)

Took the grips off, they are marked also #11. The mag safety from what I can see is still very much there, plunger spring and the release. The chip area look like a clean cut and not a break. I'm not expert of Lugers, I said this is my first one, so I'm virgin to knowledge of what I read only and then things are not always clear.

sheepherder · 12-04-2012, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrerick

Your pistol has both the sear safety and the magazine safety. That is unusual to find. Most of the magazine safeties were removed.

If the magazine safety was intact, I think it would add to the collector value of this police Luger...To someone who collects Police Lugers...

Does it actually extend behind the trigger??? I can't quite tell from the pic...Many were 'deactivated' by simply cutting off the tang that extended behind the trigger...Leaving the useless pieces in place...

skeeter4206 · 12-04-2012, 11:03 PM

Its not in the finish at. It just looks as if someone tried to pry the center toogle pin out. Heres some of you pics with closeup of that area. Im not dogging on that luger by no means. Its a very nice gun. I would love to own it. This area just caught my eye when looking at it. Whats your opinion?

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Ed,
I do apologize for having two guns in a thread. He intialy was asking about the rework of oilie guns. I was just the first one to chime in and just give some examples of one with different markings, just no a nazi proff. And I agrree that trying to talk about multiple things in a thread can be confusing. Sorry.

Cant wait to read up on these police style lugers.

NoncomRetired · 12-04-2012, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skeeter4206

Its not in the finish at. It just looks as if someone tried to pry the center toogle pin out. Heres some of you pics with closeup of that area. Im not dogging on that luger by no means. Its a very nice gun. I would love to own it. This area just caught my eye when looking at it. Whats your opinion?

Attachment 30421

Attachment 30422

Ed,
I do apologize for having two guns in a thread. He intialy was asking about the rework of oilie guns. I was just the first one to chime in and just give some examples of one with different markings, just no a nazi proff. And I agrree that trying to talk about multiple things in a thread can be confusing. Sorry.

Cant wait to read up on these police style lugers.

I had a closer look at that area, I don't think they are pry marks, there are some marks as you pointed out but not what I would call deep seated cut marks.

Edward Tinker · 12-04-2012, 11:26 PM

going back to the original question of the nazi marking on the breachblock; it could be a replacement (most likely) or was cleaned up and restamped (proofed / accepted)

Ed
SSG USA (RET)
.
.

12-04-2012, 08:08 PM	#8
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	NonComRetired... I mixed up the two pistols posted onto this thread. Deleted my prior posting... On second look, the other pistol has probably has an Erfurt side plate... Your pistol has both the sear safety and the magazine safety. That is unusual to find. Most of the magazine safeties were removed. Yours looks to be in very good condition except for the chip from the grip, which is a large one. Get in touch with Hugh Clark. He has the skill to repair grips like this. The breech block replacement would have been after 1933 to get that proof eagle. Is the firing pin fluted? If so, it was replaced with a later part. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

12-04-2012, 08:52 PM	#12
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	The chip I was talking about is in the area at the top rear of the left grip near the gold safety lever that is broken off, exposing the base of the safety lever. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

12-04-2012, 10:06 PM	#14
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	I see a 1915 DWM army luger that later received a mag and sear safety; this would have been after 1933 to around 1936 and not all police guns received the mag safety. In 1937 it was decided that mag safeties were not working out and were deactivated, some were cut like yours, some were totally removed. The grips on many guns will show a 'chipped' area there, that is correct (I will have to look and see where yours is chipped) __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-04-2012, 11:03 PM	#18
skeeter4206 User Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Augusta, GA Posts: 448 Thanks: 52 Thanked 88 Times in 49 Posts	Its not in the finish at. It just looks as if someone tried to pry the center toogle pin out. Heres some of you pics with closeup of that area. Im not dogging on that luger by no means. Its a very nice gun. I would love to own it. This area just caught my eye when looking at it. Whats your opinion? Ed, I do apologize for having two guns in a thread. He intialy was asking about the rework of oilie guns. I was just the first one to chime in and just give some examples of one with different markings, just no a nazi proff. And I agrree that trying to talk about multiple things in a thread can be confusing. Sorry. Cant wait to read up on these police style lugers.

12-04-2012, 11:26 PM	#20
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	going back to the original question of the nazi marking on the breachblock; it could be a replacement (most likely) or was cleaned up and restamped (proofed / accepted) Ed SSG USA (RET) . . __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-04-2012, 07:01 PM	#1
NoncomRetired Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 719 Thanks: 144 Thanked 306 Times in 146 Posts	I'm new and I need some information please. I purchased my first Luger today to add to a collection. I like police used pistols mainly. This one, 1915 is quite nice, 97-98% w/90% straw. All numbers match except magazine but it is a period wood based mag. It was a rework adding the sear safety. it has all the military proof marks on the reciever but while cleaning it, I came across what I think is a ReichAdler mark on the left side of the toggle. I have looked at your luger proof marks and from the one I can identfy with, it's a Mauser toggle mark and this one I have is a DWM. I first thought that sometime during the Nazi time the toggle was replaced but looking at it, I don't think it has. The matching number 11 is still on top. So!!! what are the opinions of you that know more than I do about Lugers? Much appreciated. I have attached a couple of photo, the best I could do.

12-04-2012, 07:21 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	please show full left, full right, top of the gun, any markings All we can say right now is that the breach block was replaced or proofed during the nazi period - does it have numbers underneath it?

12-04-2012, 07:29 PM	#3
NoncomRetired Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 719 Thanks: 144 Thanked 306 Times in 146 Posts	I'll take some more shots...be right back.

12-04-2012, 07:33 PM	#4
skeeter4206 User Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Augusta, GA Posts: 448 Thanks: 52 Thanked 88 Times in 49 Posts	I aint no expert by no means, but its possible that the luger went through a rearmament some where along the way and was replaced. I have a Erfurt police luger with a part DMW toggle and a simpson marked rear toggle. But all have been restamped to match the original serail number. Maybe this can help, but I aint 100% positive. I know there are others here that are more qulaified to answer this question. So... Im curious just how off I am

12-04-2012, 07:46 PM	#5
skeeter4206 User Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Augusta, GA Posts: 448 Thanks: 52 Thanked 88 Times in 49 Posts	A simpson side plate. What gave that away, Im curious

12-04-2012, 08:12 PM	#9
skeeter4206 User Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Augusta, GA Posts: 448 Thanks: 52 Thanked 88 Times in 49 Posts	Its a beautiful gun. looking at the pictures the link between the breech block and center link looks like it could have some scarred up areas around the circumference of the toggle pin hole. Its hard to tell through the pics though.