First luger! 1920 DWM

Guardian1fox2 · 03-20-2014, 01:35 PM

Hi everyone! Long time reader, first time poster! Finally came into a luger for a good price, and was wanting some opinions and info if I could! It seems to be a 1920 DWM in 9mm. Seems to be all matching, even firing pin, but I notice the barrel itself has the numbers 803 underneath, while the receiver and everything else on the barrel has the serial that matches everything else (1574). Does anyone know why or what that number is for? Also, upon inspection, I found 2 eagle and swastika stamps on right side of receiver, one on the receiver, other above trigger. Also didn't know if someone could shine some light on it. It also has a different eagle stamp on the top of the barrel, kind of in the middle. It has the original finish, some pitting on the right side of receiver. Came with aluminum mag but no numbers, and a black mag that seems to be a newer one, along with what looks to be the original cleaning rod and oiler combo. Interesting as well is the box it's in. It seems to be handmade, and has some sort of felt like interior. It's got what looks to be old type round head flat head screws so I believe it's old. Perhaps vet bring back and he made it for the gun to display? From the condition I would guess so. Thanks for any info!! Sorry for the long winded description. I'll post some pics of what it looked like before I cleaned it and after (quite dirty). At work now so I'll include some better ones later! First pic is after I cleaned it and it's in the box. Others were when I first saw it. (It looks SO much better now)

rhuff · 03-20-2014, 01:51 PM

If you look closely at the numbers on the bottom of the barrel, they will be 8,08, and not 8,03. That number is the bore measurement, and should be there.

Guardian1fox2 · 03-20-2014, 02:12 PM

Oh okay thanks!! Makes sense, that's what I thought it was but it looks just like a 3, perhaps it's worn. Anything else you may be able to tell me about it? Collectible? Shooter? I'm trying to determine what exactly it was a part of, whether police, military, or whatnot. I would love to know all i can about it. I notice the grips didn't have a number either. Definitely old tho. I was hoping to have a matching gun!

John Sabato · 03-20-2014, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhuff

If you look closely at the numbers on the bottom of the barrel, they will be 8,08, and not 8,03. That number is the bore measurement, and should be there.

Richard, I believe you have transposed a couple of digits... The bore diameter would be 8,8X where the "X" is digit from 1 to 5 which is within bore diameter tolerances on the Luger blueprints. In this case, if the last digit is really a "3" then the actual bore diameter is 8,83mm.

Guardian1fox2 · 03-20-2014, 03:11 PM

Hmm I wonder what they are then...

John Sabato · 03-20-2014, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhuff

That number is the bore measurement, and should be there.

Like he said.

Guardian1fox2 · 03-20-2014, 03:21 PM

Oops, sorry, using my phone and didn't get whole reply. That would make more sense. I just didn't know if lugers had serials there or not. Glad to know that though. I think it'll be a good first luger! Going to shoot tomorrow.

Guardian1fox2 · 03-20-2014, 04:46 PM

Looking at the info on this site, the eagle/swastika combo is a Mauser military proof. Can anyone explain why they put it on the DWM? Or is the symbol something else altogether placed there by another entity? I'd like to learn as much as I can, perhaps when I get home more pics will help..

mrerick · 03-20-2014, 05:38 PM

To get much help with markings, and to get an estimate of finish and whether parts are appropriate, you'll need to post pictures that show more detail.

Try taking them outside, in shaded natural light. Do not use flash. Use a tripod, a plain neutral background and the closeup feature on a digital camera. Don't use a phone camera. Use the self timer on the camera to eliminate camera shake.

Late marks may be there because the part was replaced, or some rework was done. Mauser started manufacturing Lugers after 1933 when the DWM tooling and some of the staff was relocated to Oberndorf.

Marc

Sieger · 03-20-2014, 06:21 PM

Hi,

I think I can see a chamber date on the receiver. What is it?

Frankly, this smells like a Weimar military to me, that was later used by the Nazis.

Sieger

alanint · 03-20-2014, 07:34 PM

Chamber date is 1920

Guardian1fox2 · 03-20-2014, 08:24 PM

Is that a plus for collectibility?? About to take some pics. Hopefully they turn out good.

Sieger · 03-21-2014, 12:26 AM

Hi,

It's a bit hard to tell from the photo, but is that a sear safety I see on top of the sideplate?

Sieger

alanint · 03-21-2014, 04:04 AM

Sideplate is unnumbered or commercial with a sear safety cut, but I don't see a corresponding hole drilled in the upper receiver. This would make the sideplate a later addition and not original to the gun.

Guardian1fox2 · 03-21-2014, 11:37 AM

Yes upon taking off the sideplate, it seems to have the number 51 inside it. Perhaps when it was used for military they rearsenaled it in a way? Taking pics now!

Guardian1fox2 · 03-21-2014, 11:38 AM

Also, how could you tell? Where would the side plate be cut at?

John Sabato · 03-21-2014, 12:43 PM

The arrow indicates the rectangular cut in the top of the sideplate where the sear safety pin would immobilize the sear when active.

Since the gun does not have a rivet hole in the upper receiver where the sear safety would be installed, this could not have been a Police model Luger. Just a Luger with a replaced (non-matching) sideplate. The number on the inside of the sideplate is an indicator that this sideplate was of Mauser manufacture, and they didn't start Luger production until the 1930's.

Guardian1fox2 · 03-21-2014, 01:11 PM

Oh I see. But wouldn't have been either military or police being that it is a 9mm with the date of 1920? It's my understanding that 9mm 1920 lugers were illegal commercially. Since it has the Mauser sideplate, and Mauser nazi proof stamps on both receiver and frame, along with eagle on barrel, could this luger perhaps been rearsenaled at a Mauser facility for the war? Just wondering. I'm becoming confused! So much history and information!

rhuff · 03-21-2014, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Sabato

Richard, I believe you have transposed a couple of digits... The bore diameter would be 8,8X where the "X" is digit from 1 to 5 which is within bore diameter tolerances on the Luger blueprints. In this case, if the last digit is really a "3" then the actual bore diameter is 8,83mm.

Yes, of course you are correct. This brain of mine seems to take a vacation from time to time. Thank you for supplying the OP with the correct info.

alanint · 03-21-2014, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian1fox2

Oh I see. But wouldn't have been either military or police being that it is a 9mm with the date of 1920? It's my understanding that 9mm 1920 lugers were illegal commercially. Since it has the Mauser sideplate, and Mauser nazi proof stamps on both receiver and frame, along with eagle on barrel, could this luger perhaps been rearsenaled at a Mauser facility for the war? Just wondering. I'm becoming confused! So much history and information!

That's a bit of wishful thinking. We still have not established that the proof you believe is a nazi era addition is in fact that. You need to provide some clear, close-up photos to make that determination.

Any sideplate replaced in an arsenal or depot would have been numbered to match. This sideplate came from elsewhare and was added to the gun sometime after manufacture.

So far we know that it is a late DWM, post WW1 military pistol that may or may not have been reissued by the nazis and has a replaced sideplate.

03-20-2014, 01:35 PM	#1
Guardian1fox2 User Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Lake Charles, LA. Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	First luger! 1920 DWM Hi everyone! Long time reader, first time poster! Finally came into a luger for a good price, and was wanting some opinions and info if I could! It seems to be a 1920 DWM in 9mm. Seems to be all matching, even firing pin, but I notice the barrel itself has the numbers 803 underneath, while the receiver and everything else on the barrel has the serial that matches everything else (1574). Does anyone know why or what that number is for? Also, upon inspection, I found 2 eagle and swastika stamps on right side of receiver, one on the receiver, other above trigger. Also didn't know if someone could shine some light on it. It also has a different eagle stamp on the top of the barrel, kind of in the middle. It has the original finish, some pitting on the right side of receiver. Came with aluminum mag but no numbers, and a black mag that seems to be a newer one, along with what looks to be the original cleaning rod and oiler combo. Interesting as well is the box it's in. It seems to be handmade, and has some sort of felt like interior. It's got what looks to be old type round head flat head screws so I believe it's old. Perhaps vet bring back and he made it for the gun to display? From the condition I would guess so. Thanks for any info!! Sorry for the long winded description. I'll post some pics of what it looked like before I cleaned it and after (quite dirty). At work now so I'll include some better ones later! First pic is after I cleaned it and it's in the box. Others were when I first saw it. (It looks SO much better now) Attached Thumbnails

03-20-2014, 05:38 PM	#9
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	To get much help with markings, and to get an estimate of finish and whether parts are appropriate, you'll need to post pictures that show more detail. Try taking them outside, in shaded natural light. Do not use flash. Use a tripod, a plain neutral background and the closeup feature on a digital camera. Don't use a phone camera. Use the self timer on the camera to eliminate camera shake. Late marks may be there because the part was replaced, or some rework was done. Mauser started manufacturing Lugers after 1933 when the DWM tooling and some of the staff was relocated to Oberndorf. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

03-21-2014, 12:43 PM	#17
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Sear Safety Cut in the Sideplate The arrow indicates the rectangular cut in the top of the sideplate where the sear safety pin would immobilize the sear when active. Since the gun does not have a rivet hole in the upper receiver where the sear safety would be installed, this could not have been a Police model Luger. Just a Luger with a replaced (non-matching) sideplate. The number on the inside of the sideplate is an indicator that this sideplate was of Mauser manufacture, and they didn't start Luger production until the 1930's. Attached Images __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-20-2014, 01:51 PM	#2
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,270 Thanks: 2,686 Thanked 958 Times in 704 Posts	If you look closely at the numbers on the bottom of the barrel, they will be 8,08, and not 8,03. That number is the bore measurement, and should be there.

03-20-2014, 02:12 PM	#3
Guardian1fox2 User Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Lake Charles, LA. Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Oh okay thanks!! Makes sense, that's what I thought it was but it looks just like a 3, perhaps it's worn. Anything else you may be able to tell me about it? Collectible? Shooter? I'm trying to determine what exactly it was a part of, whether police, military, or whatnot. I would love to know all i can about it. I notice the grips didn't have a number either. Definitely old tho. I was hoping to have a matching gun!

03-20-2014, 03:11 PM	#5
Guardian1fox2 User Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Lake Charles, LA. Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Hmm I wonder what they are then...

03-20-2014, 03:21 PM	#7
Guardian1fox2 User Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Lake Charles, LA. Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Oops, sorry, using my phone and didn't get whole reply. That would make more sense. I just didn't know if lugers had serials there or not. Glad to know that though. I think it'll be a good first luger! Going to shoot tomorrow.

03-20-2014, 04:46 PM	#8
Guardian1fox2 User Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Lake Charles, LA. Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Looking at the info on this site, the eagle/swastika combo is a Mauser military proof. Can anyone explain why they put it on the DWM? Or is the symbol something else altogether placed there by another entity? I'd like to learn as much as I can, perhaps when I get home more pics will help..

03-20-2014, 06:21 PM	#10
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	Hi, I think I can see a chamber date on the receiver. What is it? Frankly, this smells like a Weimar military to me, that was later used by the Nazis. Sieger

03-20-2014, 07:34 PM	#11
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Chamber date is 1920

03-20-2014, 08:24 PM	#12
Guardian1fox2 User Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Lake Charles, LA. Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Is that a plus for collectibility?? About to take some pics. Hopefully they turn out good.

03-21-2014, 12:26 AM	#13
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	Hi, It's a bit hard to tell from the photo, but is that a sear safety I see on top of the sideplate? Sieger

03-21-2014, 04:04 AM	#14
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Sideplate is unnumbered or commercial with a sear safety cut, but I don't see a corresponding hole drilled in the upper receiver. This would make the sideplate a later addition and not original to the gun.

03-21-2014, 11:37 AM	#15
Guardian1fox2 User Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Lake Charles, LA. Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Yes upon taking off the sideplate, it seems to have the number 51 inside it. Perhaps when it was used for military they rearsenaled it in a way? Taking pics now!

03-21-2014, 11:38 AM	#16
Guardian1fox2 User Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Lake Charles, LA. Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Also, how could you tell? Where would the side plate be cut at?

03-21-2014, 01:11 PM	#18
Guardian1fox2 User Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Lake Charles, LA. Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Oh I see. But wouldn't have been either military or police being that it is a 9mm with the date of 1920? It's my understanding that 9mm 1920 lugers were illegal commercially. Since it has the Mauser sideplate, and Mauser nazi proof stamps on both receiver and frame, along with eagle on barrel, could this luger perhaps been rearsenaled at a Mauser facility for the war? Just wondering. I'm becoming confused! So much history and information!