Old powders for an old Pistole?

BYF-42 · 09-07-2003, 08:56 PM

I have a friend that has been in the shooting sports for 25 plus years and he has a theory about old firearms. That being that our grandfathers/great grandfathers (great great grandfathers for the youngsters among us) knew what they were doing and took great care when they built the firearms that they used to gather food and defend themselves. With that premise in mind it follows that if you intend to achieve peak performance from an old firearm, you should make ammunition that as closely as is reasonable mimics what was being used at the time the firearm was made.

Of course no one wants to return to the bad old days of corrosive primers...
But what powders and bullet designs do we have out there that have stood the test of time and are still being manufactured?
IÃ¢??ve been told that IMR-PB falls into this category. I suspect that Bullseye and Unique may also fit the bill. Any other powder and bullet suggestions for building old/new 9mm Parabellum cartridges?

Sieger · 09-08-2003, 01:18 AM

Abe:

I'm working on the same project as you seem to have an interest in: recreating the original Parabellum 9mm cartridge.

I've developed some extremely accurate and trustworthy loads for the Parabellum that just so happen to mirror the original loads.

Please tell me if you handload extensively. If so, I can save you a lot of valuable time!!

Sieger

BYF-42 · 09-08-2003, 10:23 AM

Sieger,

Extensively?
Well I'm currently loading for:
9mm Steyr, 9mm Parabellum, 45 ACP, 38 Special, 44 Magnum, 6.5x55, 7.5x55, 30 Carbine, 30-06, .308 Winchester and .223 Remington.
I don't know that that list qualifies as extensive. My wife thinks it's excessive and if I had a therapist he may label it as obsessive. But my thoughts on the matter are, if I own a firearm I should be able to make it shoot well without having to depend on finding the "right" factory ammunition and then laying in a winter supply.

Sorry for the rant, I suppose I got a little carried away, again.
In answer to your original question, yes I'd very much appreciate any data/information you may care to pass on as regards this endeavor. IÃ¢??d be pleased to do the same for any of the cartridges above that may be of interest to you.

Sieger · 09-08-2003, 10:32 AM

Abe:

Yes, we are talking the same language. I'm as busy as hell now at work, but in a few weeks, we can spend some real time discussing just the right loads for the Parabellum and the tricks I have picked up over my 25 years of loading for it.

Sieger

AGE · 09-08-2003, 03:02 PM

Guys,

I reload about 8 calibers, but 9 mm isn't worth loading (to me at least). Anyway, Bullseye works wonders with .38 Special and .45 ACP; in good guns Bullseye loads shoot one hole groups. I would bet on similar performance in 9 mm.

Sieger · 09-08-2003, 06:06 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by AGE:
Guys,

I reload about 8 calibers, but 9 mm isn't worth loading (to me at least). Anyway, Bullseye works wonders with .38 Special and .45 ACP; in good guns Bullseye loads shoot one hole groups. I would bet on similar performance in 9 mm.<hr /></blockquote>AGE:

Agreed!!

Sieger

BYF-42 · 09-08-2003, 08:10 PM

Age,

I agree that Bullseye will likely produce excellent ammunition. However, what I'd like to attempt is to locate powders and bullet designs that were available at the time my P-08 was made and see if I can assemble a fine shooting cartridge with those components.

I guess its somewhat like the guy's that enjoy dressing up in Civil War uniforms and recreating famous battles, but on a smaller, more personal level. I'd like to know, if it's possible, with the kinds of components that were likely available 80 to 90 years ago whether I can assemble accurate 9mm Parabellum ammunition.

Yeah it's sort of an obsessive thing, but it beats watching Sunday Football and drinking beer!

Sieger · 09-12-2003, 11:42 PM

Well then, you are in luck, as another Forum member and I have just started that project with both the 7.65mm and 9mm Parabellum.

Please contact me at yourcpa@ix.netcom.com
for details and introductions.

Sieger

09-07-2003, 08:56 PM	#1
BYF-42 User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Eastern North Carolina Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Old powders for an old Pistole? I have a friend that has been in the shooting sports for 25 plus years and he has a theory about old firearms. That being that our grandfathers/great grandfathers (great great grandfathers for the youngsters among us) knew what they were doing and took great care when they built the firearms that they used to gather food and defend themselves. With that premise in mind it follows that if you intend to achieve peak performance from an old firearm, you should make ammunition that as closely as is reasonable mimics what was being used at the time the firearm was made. Of course no one wants to return to the bad old days of corrosive primers... But what powders and bullet designs do we have out there that have stood the test of time and are still being manufactured? IÃ¢??ve been told that IMR-PB falls into this category. I suspect that Bullseye and Unique may also fit the bill. Any other powder and bullet suggestions for building old/new 9mm Parabellum cartridges? __________________ Abe Truth is Truth! Perception and commentary upon any given matter is nothing more than another unavoidable nuisance of being human.

09-08-2003, 10:23 AM	#3
BYF-42 User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Eastern North Carolina Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Sieger, Extensively? Well I'm currently loading for: 9mm Steyr, 9mm Parabellum, 45 ACP, 38 Special, 44 Magnum, 6.5x55, 7.5x55, 30 Carbine, 30-06, .308 Winchester and .223 Remington. I don't know that that list qualifies as extensive. My wife thinks it's excessive and if I had a therapist he may label it as obsessive. But my thoughts on the matter are, if I own a firearm I should be able to make it shoot well without having to depend on finding the "right" factory ammunition and then laying in a winter supply. Sorry for the rant, I suppose I got a little carried away, again. In answer to your original question, yes I'd very much appreciate any data/information you may care to pass on as regards this endeavor. IÃ¢??d be pleased to do the same for any of the cartridges above that may be of interest to you. __________________ Abe Truth is Truth! Perception and commentary upon any given matter is nothing more than another unavoidable nuisance of being human.

09-08-2003, 03:02 PM	#5
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Guys, I reload about 8 calibers, but 9 mm isn't worth loading (to me at least). Anyway, Bullseye works wonders with .38 Special and .45 ACP; in good guns Bullseye loads shoot one hole groups. I would bet on similar performance in 9 mm. __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member

09-08-2003, 06:06 PM	#6
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by AGE: <strong>Guys, I reload about 8 calibers, but 9 mm isn't worth loading (to me at least). Anyway, Bullseye works wonders with .38 Special and .45 ACP; in good guns Bullseye loads shoot one hole groups. I would bet on similar performance in 9 mm.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">AGE: Agreed!! Sieger

09-08-2003, 08:10 PM	#7
BYF-42 User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Eastern North Carolina Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Age, I agree that Bullseye will likely produce excellent ammunition. However, what I'd like to attempt is to locate powders and bullet designs that were available at the time my P-08 was made and see if I can assemble a fine shooting cartridge with those components. I guess its somewhat like the guy's that enjoy dressing up in Civil War uniforms and recreating famous battles, but on a smaller, more personal level. I'd like to know, if it's possible, with the kinds of components that were likely available 80 to 90 years ago whether I can assemble accurate 9mm Parabellum ammunition. Yeah it's sort of an obsessive thing, but it beats watching Sunday Football and drinking beer! __________________ Abe Truth is Truth! Perception and commentary upon any given matter is nothing more than another unavoidable nuisance of being human.

09-08-2003, 01:18 AM	#2
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	Abe: I'm working on the same project as you seem to have an interest in: recreating the original Parabellum 9mm cartridge. I've developed some extremely accurate and trustworthy loads for the Parabellum that just so happen to mirror the original loads. Please tell me if you handload extensively. If so, I can save you a lot of valuable time!! Sieger

09-08-2003, 10:32 AM	#4
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	Abe: Yes, we are talking the same language. I'm as busy as hell now at work, but in a few weeks, we can spend some real time discussing just the right loads for the Parabellum and the tricks I have picked up over my 25 years of loading for it. Sieger

09-12-2003, 11:42 PM	#8
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	Well then, you are in luck, as another Forum member and I have just started that project with both the 7.65mm and 9mm Parabellum. Please contact me at yourcpa@ix.netcom.com for details and introductions. Sieger