1901 test Lugers

dav1903 · 09-20-2008, 07:35 PM

Just wondering how hard and how much it would be to come across a 1901 Test Luger , I have the holster and that's a start!

Edward Tinker · 09-20-2008, 07:44 PM

David, welcome to the forum~!

Well, is it an original holster or one of the reproductions?

Finding a "real" test luger is an exercise... The newest information is in Jan Still's book "Central Powers", and in brief, the info states that the only true way to have (for sure) a test luger is to get one of the Bannerman numbered ones and not neccesarilly the 6100-7100 generally stated. That said, they can be found.

I don't have a Bannerman number, but own 2 of the the ones between 6100-7100... but not a holster....

Ed

Ron Wood · 09-20-2008, 08:34 PM

Very attractive looking holster. Could you please post a photo of the back side?

dav1903 · 09-21-2008, 06:19 PM

I have uploaded a few pictures to http://s149.photobucket.com/albums/s...ger%20holster/
Thanks for the info,
Dave

Edward Tinker · 09-21-2008, 06:37 PM

David, rather than posting on another site, can you post here directly?

Whats the story on the holster? Bought it at a sale? Estate? Family?

thanks,

Ed

Mike B · 09-21-2008, 08:25 PM

David,
I have two Test Eagles, both on the Bannerman list. I would be willing to part with one. Check your private messages on the forum

Mike

alvin · 09-21-2008, 08:30 PM

This holster matches the holster shown on page 120 of "Holsters and Shoulder-Stocks of the World" (Vanderlinden, 2005), but it does not match the holster shown on page 420 of "Central Powers Pistols" (Still, 2007).

Q for domain experts: For only 1,000 guns, why did we see two (maybe more?) variations of holsters? Thanks.

dav1903 · 09-22-2008, 03:05 PM

George Anderson · 09-22-2008, 04:30 PM

There are some subtle differences between this holster and the holster in Vanderlinden's book. Four things just off the top are placement of Rock Island stamp, color of the leather, width of the tongue of the flap and size of the US oval. I am also a bit put off by the seeming lack of verdigris around the brass rivets on the reverse. May we see photos of the interior?

dav1903 · 09-22-2008, 05:59 PM

http://s149.photobucket.com/albums/s...ger%20holster/
I found it easier to put the photos here.
I measured and the holster body is 9 1/2 the flap is 6 13 / 16 loop 6 1/4x 2 1/4

John Sabato · 09-22-2008, 08:20 PM

David, Please read this thread in the New Collector's forum... it will explain more about why we have our policy on photo posting...

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...threadid=20081

Ron Wood · 09-22-2008, 11:03 PM

Like George, I have some reservations about the holster. I generally agree with his observations. The color is definitely wrong and from the photos it can be seen that it has had either cordovan dye or shoe polish applied, I think probably shoe polish. But it is a couple of finer points that stand out for me. The rivets for the belt loop are placed a tad too high, going through the bottom of the top flap...the originals that I have seen have the rivets placed just below the edge of the flap. Also, the stitches that hold the reinforcement pad at the trigger area are not exactly right. There are two rows of four coarse stitches on this holster whereas the usual configuration is two rows of five finer stitches. Picky points I know, but the devil is in the details. If I were to go out on a limb, I would suspect that this holster is one of the very early excellent copies made by El Paso Saddlery before they started marking them with their logo on the back. After a few years of use it is really hard to tell their holster from an original except for the observations made here.

P.S. for Alvin:
There really arenÃ¢??t too many variations of the U.S. test holsters. As you pointed out, the holster on page 420 of "Central Powers Pistols" is different. It is one of only two examples that I personally know of that was made for the right hand side with the butt to the rear. All of the other Test holsters are made with the butt forward in cavalry Ã¢??cross drawÃ¢?Â style. You will also notice that the Central Powers example (also shown on page 212 of Ã¢??Imperial LugersÃ¢?Â) has a tie-down device on the toe of the holster like the M1904 U.S. holster for revolvers. I think that these right hand holsters, with and without the tie-down, were probably very limited production pieces made to explore alternative concepts, as opposed to the many butt-forward holsters that were sent to the field for testing.

09-20-2008, 07:35 PM	#1
dav1903 New User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Webster MA Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1901 test Lugers Just wondering how hard and how much it would be to come across a 1901 Test Luger , I have the holster and that's a start! Attached Thumbnails __________________ If it can't kill ya it ain't a sport

09-20-2008, 07:44 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	David, welcome to the forum~! Well, is it an original holster or one of the reproductions? Finding a "real" test luger is an exercise... The newest information is in Jan Still's book "Central Powers", and in brief, the info states that the only true way to have (for sure) a test luger is to get one of the Bannerman numbered ones and not neccesarilly the 6100-7100 generally stated. That said, they can be found. I don't have a Bannerman number, but own 2 of the the ones between 6100-7100... but not a holster.... Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-20-2008, 08:34 PM	#3
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	Very attractive looking holster. Could you please post a photo of the back side? __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-21-2008, 06:19 PM	#4
dav1903 New User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Webster MA Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I have uploaded a few pictures to http://s149.photobucket.com/albums/s...ger%20holster/ Thanks for the info, Dave __________________ If it can't kill ya it ain't a sport

09-21-2008, 06:37 PM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	David, rather than posting on another site, can you post here directly? Whats the story on the holster? Bought it at a sale? Estate? Family? thanks, Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-21-2008, 08:25 PM	#6
Mike B Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 979 Thanks: 1 Thanked 271 Times in 99 Posts	David, I have two Test Eagles, both on the Bannerman list. I would be willing to part with one. Check your private messages on the forum Mike

09-21-2008, 08:30 PM	#7
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	This holster matches the holster shown on page 120 of "Holsters and Shoulder-Stocks of the World" (Vanderlinden, 2005), but it does not match the holster shown on page 420 of "Central Powers Pistols" (Still, 2007). Q for domain experts: For only 1,000 guns, why did we see two (maybe more?) variations of holsters? Thanks.

09-22-2008, 03:05 PM	#8
dav1903 New User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Webster MA Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	__________________ If it can't kill ya it ain't a sport

09-22-2008, 04:30 PM	#9
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,772 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	There are some subtle differences between this holster and the holster in Vanderlinden's book. Four things just off the top are placement of Rock Island stamp, color of the leather, width of the tongue of the flap and size of the US oval. I am also a bit put off by the seeming lack of verdigris around the brass rivets on the reverse. May we see photos of the interior?

09-22-2008, 05:59 PM	#10
dav1903 New User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Webster MA Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	http://s149.photobucket.com/albums/s...ger%20holster/ I found it easier to put the photos here. I measured and the holster body is 9 1/2 the flap is 6 13 / 16 loop 6 1/4x 2 1/4 __________________ If it can't kill ya it ain't a sport

09-22-2008, 08:20 PM	#11
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	David, Please read this thread in the New Collector's forum... it will explain more about why we have our policy on photo posting... http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...threadid=20081 __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-22-2008, 11:03 PM	#12
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	Like George, I have some reservations about the holster. I generally agree with his observations. The color is definitely wrong and from the photos it can be seen that it has had either cordovan dye or shoe polish applied, I think probably shoe polish. But it is a couple of finer points that stand out for me. The rivets for the belt loop are placed a tad too high, going through the bottom of the top flap...the originals that I have seen have the rivets placed just below the edge of the flap. Also, the stitches that hold the reinforcement pad at the trigger area are not exactly right. There are two rows of four coarse stitches on this holster whereas the usual configuration is two rows of five finer stitches. Picky points I know, but the devil is in the details. If I were to go out on a limb, I would suspect that this holster is one of the very early excellent copies made by El Paso Saddlery before they started marking them with their logo on the back. After a few years of use it is really hard to tell their holster from an original except for the observations made here. P.S. for Alvin: There really arenÃ¢??t too many variations of the U.S. test holsters. As you pointed out, the holster on page 420 of "Central Powers Pistols" is different. It is one of only two examples that I personally know of that was made for the right hand side with the butt to the rear. All of the other Test holsters are made with the butt forward in cavalry Ã¢??cross drawÃ¢?Â style. You will also notice that the Central Powers example (also shown on page 212 of Ã¢??Imperial LugersÃ¢?Â) has a tie-down device on the toe of the holster like the M1904 U.S. holster for revolvers. I think that these right hand holsters, with and without the tie-down, were probably very limited production pieces made to explore alternative concepts, as opposed to the many butt-forward holsters that were sent to the field for testing. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction