help with ID

meddle · 01-01-2008, 07:49 PM

I'm looking for help identifiying a luger handed to me by a friend. I'm new to the board and lugers so I'll appologize up front for ignorance. What I do know is this: DWM toggle marking, 3 3/4" barrel, GESICHERT under top 'safety' setting, no grip safety, 7303 (with a lower case L in script) on barrel and frame, 03 on several other parts and 'crown Ns' everywhere. I was told it is chambered for .30 (I assume 7.65?) but don't know. Thanks in advance for any help in narrowing it down.

TzDreamer · 01-01-2008, 09:25 PM

Wow another Texas boy!

You have come to the right place these guys are great. I will not be much help but I am learning more each day here.

Is there a year on top of the receiver?
We will ALL want pictures!

The "03" on the small parts are the last two digits of your serial number.

The rest is up to the Gurus here not this novice.

Edward Tinker · 01-01-2008, 09:35 PM

Michael, on these 30 luger (aka 7.65mm) there are usually two possibilities;

1. made in the 1920's and exported to the market (does it have "germany" stamped on it?

2. A WW1 luger that has been rebarreled in 30 luger and dating taken off of it.

and WELCOME to the forum

Ed

meddle · 01-02-2008, 09:48 AM

TzDreamer - Thanks. I assumed as much for the s/n info but again, I was not sure. I can't find any other markings on the piece. I will take some pics and post them (as soon as i figure out how to get them to the forum).

Edward - No "germany" or dates. I have only found a few references to "gesichert" at the safety and both were in reference to 1906 models. There seem to have been both commercial (7.65) and Navy Military (9mm) with the markings I have decsribed. I would have thought it was the former but there were only 750 made and my s/n suggests different.

Edward Tinker · 01-02-2008, 10:19 AM

Geischert simply means it is the safety, it is on almost all lugers (probably was on about 2 million of them), so that is not much of an indication of a model.

Most likely yours is either #1 or #2 that I stated above.

The toggle is not marked on the top of the gun? I would expect DWM in a scroll pattern, but that also may be taken off or blank.

The Crown N's are the acceptance and proof markings for a commericial piece, although since it sounds like you have some "exposed" numbers (which is the military style of placement), if in the commericial style, most are "hidden"... Again, 10's of thousands were produced, but pictures of full left, full right, top and some sides, not too small will tell us for sure.

Ed

meddle · 01-02-2008, 01:07 PM

Pics

meddle · 01-02-2008, 01:11 PM

More pics

Is this how you prefer to view pics or is there a way to put them in the posting?

meddle · 01-02-2008, 01:15 PM

Edward Tinker · 01-02-2008, 02:05 PM

I changed the URL to say IMG and that makes the photos show.

Yes, this is a commericial luger, made in the 1920's for export to the USA by DWM.

Ed

meddle · 01-02-2008, 04:59 PM

Thanks, I appreciate the help.

MFC · 01-02-2008, 11:52 PM

Michael,
Your Luger is a DWM Alphabet, (also known as 1920 commecial). It was made in 1923 according to the serial #. It was made for the commecial market but without the GERMANY stamp it was not for the American market. Yours might be a vet bring back since most of the commecial Lugers in the US have the GERMANY stamp, which is to comply with US import laws.
Mike C.

01-01-2008, 09:35 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Michael, on these 30 luger (aka 7.65mm) there are usually two possibilities; 1. made in the 1920's and exported to the market (does it have "germany" stamped on it? 2. A WW1 luger that has been rebarreled in 30 luger and dating taken off of it. and WELCOME to the forum Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

01-02-2008, 10:19 AM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Geischert simply means it is the safety, it is on almost all lugers (probably was on about 2 million of them), so that is not much of an indication of a model. Most likely yours is either #1 or #2 that I stated above. The toggle is not marked on the top of the gun? I would expect DWM in a scroll pattern, but that also may be taken off or blank. The Crown N's are the acceptance and proof markings for a commericial piece, although since it sounds like you have some "exposed" numbers (which is the military style of placement), if in the commericial style, most are "hidden"... Again, 10's of thousands were produced, but pictures of full left, full right, top and some sides, not too small will tell us for sure. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

01-02-2008, 02:05 PM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	I changed the URL to say IMG and that makes the photos show. Yes, this is a commericial luger, made in the 1920's for export to the USA by DWM. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

01-02-2008, 11:52 PM	#11
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Michael, Your Luger is a DWM Alphabet, (also known as 1920 commecial). It was made in 1923 according to the serial #. It was made for the commecial market but without the GERMANY stamp it was not for the American market. Yours might be a vet bring back since most of the commecial Lugers in the US have the GERMANY stamp, which is to comply with US import laws. Mike C. __________________ Mike C.

01-01-2008, 07:49 PM	#1
meddle User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	help with ID I'm looking for help identifiying a luger handed to me by a friend. I'm new to the board and lugers so I'll appologize up front for ignorance. What I do know is this: DWM toggle marking, 3 3/4" barrel, GESICHERT under top 'safety' setting, no grip safety, 7303 (with a lower case L in script) on barrel and frame, 03 on several other parts and 'crown Ns' everywhere. I was told it is chambered for .30 (I assume 7.65?) but don't know. Thanks in advance for any help in narrowing it down.

01-01-2008, 09:25 PM	#2
TzDreamer User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Wichita Falls Texas USA Posts: 28 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Wow another Texas boy! You have come to the right place these guys are great. I will not be much help but I am learning more each day here. Is there a year on top of the receiver? We will ALL want pictures! The "03" on the small parts are the last two digits of your serial number. The rest is up to the Gurus here not this novice.

01-02-2008, 09:48 AM	#4
meddle User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	TzDreamer - Thanks. I assumed as much for the s/n info but again, I was not sure. I can't find any other markings on the piece. I will take some pics and post them (as soon as i figure out how to get them to the forum). Edward - No "germany" or dates. I have only found a few references to "gesichert" at the safety and both were in reference to 1906 models. There seem to have been both commercial (7.65) and Navy Military (9mm) with the markings I have decsribed. I would have thought it was the former but there were only 750 made and my s/n suggests different.

01-02-2008, 01:07 PM	#6
meddle User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Pics

01-02-2008, 01:11 PM	#7
meddle User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	More pics Is this how you prefer to view pics or is there a way to put them in the posting?

01-02-2008, 01:15 PM	#8
meddle User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

01-02-2008, 04:59 PM	#10
meddle User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks, I appreciate the help.