CCW, a Luger? (Dumb question # 2)

[ronin]

Hey Thor,

I thought of posting this topic right after watching The Longest Day. I thought it was way cool to hand around with a Luger all day . [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Die Hard is a P7 movie! forget about the Berettas. Hans Gruber �¼ber Alles! [img]wink.gif[/img]

You certainly know your classics down to the Cross of Iron included, i�´m impressed

<img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />

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[John Sabato]

I thought you guys might like to see this beauty of a conversion that I spoke of earlier in this thread...

Steel Framed Colt Combat Commander converted to true double-action by L. W. Seecamp Sr. in 1976. This is my carry gun. She isn't a lightweight, but she will last for the long haul.





Isn't she a beaut! There aren't many like her, and she takes her bodyguard role very seriously.

[Mike C.]

Uh, Thor, is it conspicuous consumption if one can select a sidearm from his assemblage to match the mood movie for the day?

[ronin]

I was wondering the exact same thing last night, right after watching Men In Black i felt the urge to clean my "Noisy Cricket" <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />

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[lugerholsterrepair]

John, What a unique pistol! Was this a common conversion, done by Mr Seecamp on any other pistols? What pound pressure is the DA? Sounds like a really good idea. Jerry Burney

[Herb]

My little boy with the big mouth, he fits very nicely in my shirt pocket. <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />

[John Sabato]

Jerry,

the Seecamp conversion was only done on the Steel version of the 1911A1 frame in either standard or Commander length.

It is a pretty unique conversion. I doubt he converted more than 50 or so. At some point the patent was sold to a company in New Jersey whose name I can't seem to remember and they attempted to market the gun in both blue and stainless, but I have no idea how successful they were or if they got past the prototype stage. Perhaps someone with a grounding on one of the 1911 websites might read this and fill us both in.

The conversion creatively hangs a mechanism similar in nature to the P-38 into machine cuts made into the right side of the frame and the double action trigger is added. The gun functions in both single and double action modes and in the event of a combat type loss of one of the double action parts, they can be readily removed and the gun returns to single action.

I would guess that the weight of the double action pull is similar to the P-38 but I have never measured it. The trigger is wide and smooth like a S&W combat revolver trigger and is a joy to use...

I have only been in touch with 2 other owners of this conversion a year or two ago and they bought them from someone else. Lewis Seecamp did mine for me personally... The asking price on the last one I saw for sale was $1250.00 and I wouldn't part with mine for twice that... We have been through too much together to get a divorce now [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

[Gene]

Thor,

Since you can't always know what movie is going to be showing on TV, you really should be wearing everything on your list whenever you sit down in front of the tube.

Regards,
Gene

[Thor]

Good Idea Gene! I have to try it sometime. I might need Natalie to hand feed me the popcorn. I will be too loaded down to move! lol <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />

[John D.]

Nice .45 John..!!! Yowzaaa...!!!! [img]eek.gif[/img]

For a CCW firearm, if you are actually carrying - try a Berretta 84 or 85 or a Glock. Small frame, excellent reliability, excellent accuracy. If you are looking for a "nightstand" weapon - I agree with John S. - try an O-frame (Colt/Springfield) in .45 or .38 Super or 9mm or 10mm. I use a 10mm that I rebuilt for competition off a Delta Elite frame, but it is too big for everyday concealed carry.

HTH!!

John D.

[Torquemada055]

Gee ! I feel like a piker since I only carry my unmodified 1911A1 in a thumb break Bianci holster.
I've had others in the past but I guess the .45 is too much like me, old, fat, and slow !

But if I had a shoulder holster and a Luger with a spare mag, I would carry it on occassion.
Hard to beat the picture I have from the W.E.B. Griffen series of books on the Army, where the hero carried his in a shoulder holster with a brass plate that said "God with us" in german on the holster. <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by John Sabato

Steel Framed Colt Combat Commander converted to true double-action by Lewis W. Seecamp Sr. in 1976.

I swear I'm getting as bad as Eric in resurrecting dead threads!!!

Anyway, here is a poor copy of a pic in Nonte's book showing the Seecamp conversion. You can just make out the pin on the hammer that the drawbar hooks on, and the corresponding trigger pin. Stub of original Colt trigger is visible. Hairpin spring holds drawbar up in position for cocking. The picture doesn't show the sideplate that covers the drawbar & internals.

I've always liked the basic idea, but never liked the triggerguard modification or the fact that it was only [AFAIK] offered in the Commander length.

[Edward Tinker]

TWELVE YEAR OLD THREAD?

jeeeez

[John Sabato]

The Seecamp conversion leans heavily on the mechanical design of the Walther P.38 Thanks for posting the photo from George Nonte. If that example had an arched mainspring housing, it could easily have been my pistol during the conversion! But this one has the flat housing. I only wish I had had the opportunity to meet personally with Lewis. I did all the arrangements by phone and had my gunsmith mentor do the shipping.

Originally Posted by sheepherder

I've always liked the basic idea, but never liked the triggerguard modification or the fact that it was only [AFAIK] offered in the Commander length.

Actually Rich, the only requirement at the time I had my conversion done was that the frame be steel and not aluminum alloy. L.W. Seecamp didn't think that the aluminum frame would hold up well with him cutting pieces out of it for the conversion, so he limited his work to the steel models.

I had a full size commercial Colt at the same time, and had a choice, but decided to go with my steel framed Commander because I was going to carry it and the shorter length was more appropriate. Looking back, I should have done the full size gun, because you can mount the Commander slide and barrel on a full size frame and have the best of both worlds. Short length when it matters, and long length when it doesn't.

As far as the trigger guard change, it is quite practical and I found that the front became more support hand friendly than the original shape. I never saw that the trigger guard shape change was necessary from a function viewpoint.

This was NOT a difficult conversion from a machinist point of view. I am sure that you have the skills to do this to a 1911 frame. All you would need is a working example to make duplicate parts. The paperwork is another matter. As this conversion required machining through the original placement of the serial number, you would need BATFE pre-approval for movement of the serial number to stay legitimate because you would be "defacing" the original serial number...

[Curss]

Mr. Sabato, that is a truly unique weapon you have! Do you know of anyone else that is doing similar conversions?

[John Sabato]

I don't know of anyone currently doing this conversion. I also don't have any idea how many Lewis Seecamp did when he was alive. Some internet googling might answer that question. You may find a used one if you keep an active search philosophy... watch the usual suspects like gunbroker and gunsamerica... the last one I saw for sale was around $1500-1700, but that was some time ago.

[cirelaw]

Guns And Ammo's choices~ http://www.gunsandammo.com/gun-revie...ndgun-reviews/ ~Eric

[John Sabato]

Okay... a quick Google search turned up this history...

http://www.seecamp.com/companyhistory.htm

L.W. Seecamp Co, Inc. was founded in 1973 as a family business specializing in Ludwig's patented (#3722358) double action conversion of the venerable 1911 semi-auto pistol (Colt .45). This conversion, done during a period when the single-action versus double-action controversy was at its peak, resulted in the first commercially available DA .45 autoloaders anywhere in the world. Nearly 2000 such DA conversions were done from the early 70s to the early 80s. Ludwig had become a firm believer in the value of DA after a Walther P-38 saved his life in WWII. That incident, which left him with a cheek-long scar and some missing teeth from a bullet wound, also convinced him point shooting rather than sight use is the reality in close range combat. Having been a fan of the 1911 but being also an advocate of DA carry, commercial conversions were a natural outgrowth of the Colt 45 that Ludwig had converted to DA for his own personal protection.

More great info on this conversion:

http://www.seecamp.com/cgi-bin/yabb2...m=1182143251/0

http://www.seecamp.com/cgi-bin/yabb2...rd=conversions

http://www.seecamp.com/cgi-bin/yabb2...num=1389748263

http://www.seecamp.com/cgi-bin/yabb2...1169272141/9#9

This one is especially for Sheepherder :

http://www.seecamp.com/cgi-bin/yabb2...1334079588/8#8

[Curss]

WOW, saved by a P-38?!? I love stories like that. I shall indeed keep an eye out for such a conversion on Gunbroker! Hopefully within the next several months I shall be entering into a career that will allow me to aquire such fine shooting instruments!

Intresting how the side plate is held in by the grip and grips screws! There appears to be Colt Commanders that were shortened from their original size.

[sheepherder]

The Seecamp Forum requires registration; maybe later...

I did find some other Forums with pics and stories...It appears the conversion process evolved over time...There were full-length conversions as well...

John, it's not quite that easy to put the Commander slide/barrel on a 5" frame and expect it to work...I've done it but it does require a bit of machining to the frame...Otherwise the Commander slide won't travel rearward far enough...In the old days (before Commanders), they just cut 3/4" off the slide/barrel & re-cut the bushing slot...

I probably could do the conversion, I have the patent number now...And it looks do-able...Maybe someday...