Mauser "2-digit"?

phillyny · 04-05-2013, 08:34 PM

I have a P08 that I need some help identifying and an opinion as to price. This came from a friend of mine who's Dad was stationed in Germany for a time immediately following WWII.

The pictures would suggest that what he has is a "Mauser 2 Digit Date" Luger and given the shape it's in, I'm guessing might fetch between $1500-$2200. Did I get the identification correct? It also looks like the holster may have been bought at the PX? Is it American or German? The pistol has 1 matching magazine and one aftermarket magazine with an aluminum base and a stamping "MADE IN DENMARK".

All the components are matching numbers. It has some bluing wear from the holster but the chamber and barrel internals look practically new. This is the first anyone has seen this gun since WWII Germany!

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Edward Tinker · 04-05-2013, 09:23 PM

I think that the value is likely if in good, matching condition, if in really good condition, towards the higher. The thing is that the pictures are not clear enough. It is a Mauser Banner, two digit, meaning it went into the army.

The holster is just a commercial holster, low value, but nice to have.

skeeter4206 · 04-05-2013, 11:29 PM

I am curious what you mean by the mauser two digit. Is it the fact the year on the top says "42" instead of "1942". And if the two digits went into the army saying "42", is there a commercial style mauser that says "1942" on the top of the gun?

lugersrkewl · 04-06-2013, 12:33 AM

Some 1942 chamber dated commercial mausers were ordered by police according to police lugers book.
looks good I would say 86 percent blue , 30 percent straw. but what do I know

.
bucheimer isnt around anymore my .22 cowboy action sits in one of his holsters.

SteveM · 04-06-2013, 09:54 AM

This looks to me like a 42 dated Commercial Banner. It is in the correct serial range, commercially proofed, has straw parts. Is there a Eagle over N on the front of the sight block? Is the barrel serial numbered? Is the barrel marked s/42? Is it 9mm or 30 caliber?

phillyny · 04-06-2013, 03:09 PM

Hi Steve,

The proof mark looks like the Mauser #48 proof on this forum's ID page. I never thought to look at the front sight base. With my old eyes, all I can see is an eagle proof mark. It looks like there might be something just to the left of the eagle but I can't make it out. I can't locate a serial number on the barrel anywhere. All it has is the air gauge size of the chamber (8.83) which I think makes it a 9mm. Every part that has a visible stamp is "54" which I believe makes it matching numbers. The bakelite grips are pristine: no cracks or chips anywhere.

My buddy is in no hurry to sell it but he has no use for it and it doesn't hold any sentimental value to him. I'm in California, so I may put it up on this site and Calguns. If it doesn't sell, I'll move it over to Gunbroker. He would like to see it go to someone who appreciates these guns. It appears much better than a "shooter" to me. I removed the slide today and it looks like it was never fired on the interior.

Thanks for the help. It is much appreciated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveM

This looks to me like a 42 dated Commercial Banner. It is in the correct serial range, commercially proofed, has straw parts. Is there a Eagle over N on the front of the sight block? Is the barrel serial numbered? Is the barrel marked s/42? Is it 9mm or 30 caliber?

phillyny · 04-06-2013, 03:17 PM

I was thumbing through my gun books and found the description as "Mauser 2 Digit Date" in the 2008 Edition of the "Standard Book of Firearms" by Dan Shideler. It fits the description perfectly. He states "There were approximately 2000 manufactured for sale to Nazi political groups." He says the 2 digit date stamp was the year of manufacture (either 41 or 42). 1942 doesn't appear anywhere on the gun. Sorry for the fuzzy photos but I needed to reduce the resolution to get them down to the 200KB picture size limit on this forum. Thanks for the help!

Quote:

Originally Posted by skeeter4206

I am curious what you mean by the mauser two digit. Is it the fact the year on the top says "42" instead of "1942". And if the two digits went into the army saying "42", is there a commercial style mauser that says "1942" on the top of the gun?

phillyny · 04-06-2013, 03:24 PM

Hi Edward,

Thanks for the information. I can get better pictures to you if it would help but scrunched them down so I could post them here. I thought the holster was probably commercial. The interior of the Luger looks new to me. If is was fired, it wasn't fired much and was well taken care of. The bluing is worn where the frame rails contact the leather, but other than that, the finish is pristine (except for 70 years worth of dust and grime).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

I think that the value is likely if in good, matching condition, if in really good condition, towards the higher. The thing is that the pictures are not clear enough. It is a Mauser Banner, two digit, meaning it went into the army.

The holster is just a commercial holster, low value, but nice to have.

Vlim · 04-06-2013, 04:25 PM

It is a nice looking commercial banner. These pistols were sold to anyone besides the army who were able / allowed to purchase pistols. This includes private sales, police organisations, political organizations and probably some small exports here and there.

42 on a commercial version just means that they used a 42-dated receiver, that was probably left over from the military production run (which ended in 1942). Chances are that it was assembled and sold anywhere between 1942 and 1945.

lugersrkewl · 04-09-2013, 07:47 PM

should a noncom. ser. placed be straw?

SteveM · 04-09-2013, 08:14 PM

These are found in all kinds of different combinations; with or without proofs, with strawed or blued small parts, with bakelite or wood grips. Over on the other site, 46 pistols have been recorded in this serial range and of those 46 there were 16 different flavors noted. Only 2000 or so of these in this particular range of serial numbers.

Dick Herman · 11-23-2013, 08:11 PM

Is there an available list of known w block Mauser Banner Lugers?

johnii · 12-10-2013, 04:25 PM

I think your above chamber area says "42" instead of "1942" and the Mauser Banner is something I am not familiar with. I have read the thread and know your gun is Mauser by the Mauser Bump but whether it was Military or not I don't know enough. I see where other posts say it is commercial or some such and to tell you the truth I don't think it is Third Reich issue from what I know.

Lots of Luger pistols were made for civilians and Swiss and such commanding extreme prices. The moment a P-08 seems hard to define is the moment to figure it out after careful and timely research. The next thing I'd ask is if it shoots reliably without a hiccup. If it hiccups I'd get rid of it. Who wants a pistol that cannot function?

johnii · 12-10-2013, 04:46 PM

I have no straw to throw into this post. I have seen "strawed" P-08s and when I do they are rather costly. They are for serious collectors who collect and decide never to shoot the gun for function.

I only own working guns and I will not own a gun that doesn't work. Period.

johnii · 12-10-2013, 04:52 PM

After all, I have 1873 Colt Single Action Army's in .44-40 WCF and .32-20 and they shoot to this day with the finest accuracy and reliability.

Jump ahead to WWI or WWII in a Luger P-08 and if that won't fire reliably I have no interest in it. I'd rather have a Colt Frontier Six Shooter shooting .44-40 WCF and be done with it.

I will not ever own a gun I cannot fire today for effect. I have no safe queens or priceless relics that can't be fired. I have an 1873 Colt Single Action I can fire to this day.

Edward Tinker · 12-10-2013, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnii

I have no straw to throw into this post. I have seen "strawed" P-08s and when I do they are rather costly. They are for serious collectors who collect and decide never to shoot the gun for function.

I only own working guns and I will not own a gun that doesn't work. Period.

What the ? That is your opinion, so why are you pushing it so hard?

I would buy a few books and then decide if it is military or commercial. Although I understand what is said above, I disagree, if it is dated, the I am of the opinion it was bought for the army or police - a non dated commercial piece would be a Mauser Banner non dated IMHO

johnii · 12-10-2013, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

What the ? That is your opinion, so why are you pushing it so hard?

I would buy a few books and then decide if it is military or commercial. Although I understand what is said above, I disagree, if it is dated, the I am of the opinion it was bought for the army or police - a non dated commercial piece would be a Mauser Banner non dated IMHO

I don't own German Police Lugers. I own S/42 Soldier sidearms under the Third Reich. I own no Commercial or other. I won't own Swiss or Navy or some other. I will only own a true sidearm issued to the Third Reich. I am not a "collector" of rare Swiss or Navy Lugers. I am a Soldier retired and I want Soldier Weapons instead of rare things. I want Soldier Weapons that fire and work TO DATE because I like FIRING my guns.

Is this a collecting forum prejudiced against working P-08s like I have?
Tell me now and I'll get the hell out of here.

MikeP · 12-11-2013, 03:33 AM

Being more or less the resident grump, I'll say it.

You come across like you are about 15 years old.

Some of your other posts support this as well.

Repeating semi related rants from various angles in the same thread make my head hurt and serve no real purpose.

A lot of us have been around the block a time or twice and appreciate a good story.
Not so much disjointed ramblings.

alvin · 12-11-2013, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnii

Who wants a pistol that cannot function?

Actually, many people want a pistol that cannot function. Cutaway is a typical example. If factory, it usually goes higher than normal production pistols due to the volume is tiny. It could go very high, out of my reach, but who's bidding on those?? Must be dedicated collectors who have many instances of that type of gun. It's hard to imagine people could interest in it if that is not in their main domain... the reason is simple -- it's not functional. For its collectors, it's a rare find.

Even for normal pistols, if has one, it's surely for shooting. Starting from 2 to above, there are many combinations of ways to play this. Typical collector have 20-30 guns of same type, it's very uncommon to see him shooting all of those, due to curiosity is out of picture. The "I shoot everything that I have" statement typically implies different types of guns in the collection so shooting curiosity goes on and on. Even for same type of guns, say, firing 4" Luger is different from firing 8" Luger, there is a driver for shooting.... but firing a 1936 S/42 is not very different from firing a byf 42.

If someone had experience on firing Shansei .45ACP Broomhandle, please post a range report. Really curious on it's working or not.... Don't know yet. I mean, genuine one made in 1920s.

Patronen · 12-11-2013, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Is this a collecting forum prejudiced against working P-08s like I have?
Tell me now and I'll get the hell out of here.

Fire away!
It's your guns.
If you break a part on an all matching numbers gun and or ruin a collectible it's all you and your dime.

04-05-2013, 08:34 PM	#1
phillyny User Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Southern California Posts: 6 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mauser "2-digit"? I have a P08 that I need some help identifying and an opinion as to price. This came from a friend of mine who's Dad was stationed in Germany for a time immediately following WWII. The pictures would suggest that what he has is a "Mauser 2 Digit Date" Luger and given the shape it's in, I'm guessing might fetch between $1500-$2200. Did I get the identification correct? It also looks like the holster may have been bought at the PX? Is it American or German? The pistol has 1 matching magazine and one aftermarket magazine with an aluminum base and a stamping "MADE IN DENMARK". All the components are matching numbers. It has some bluing wear from the holster but the chamber and barrel internals look practically new. This is the first anyone has seen this gun since WWII Germany! Any help would be greatly appreciated. Attached Thumbnails

04-05-2013, 09:23 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	I think that the value is likely if in good, matching condition, if in really good condition, towards the higher. The thing is that the pictures are not clear enough. It is a Mauser Banner, two digit, meaning it went into the army. The holster is just a commercial holster, low value, but nice to have. __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-23-2013, 08:11 PM	#12
Dick Herman User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 302 Thanks: 496 Thanked 354 Times in 138 Posts	w block list Is there an available list of known w block Mauser Banner Lugers?

04-05-2013, 11:29 PM	#3
skeeter4206 User Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Augusta, GA Posts: 448 Thanks: 52 Thanked 88 Times in 49 Posts	I am curious what you mean by the mauser two digit. Is it the fact the year on the top says "42" instead of "1942". And if the two digits went into the army saying "42", is there a commercial style mauser that says "1942" on the top of the gun?

04-06-2013, 12:33 AM	#4
lugersrkewl Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Ussr Posts: 425 Thanks: 198 Thanked 75 Times in 58 Posts	Some 1942 chamber dated commercial mausers were ordered by police according to police lugers book. looks good I would say 86 percent blue , 30 percent straw. but what do I know . bucheimer isnt around anymore my .22 cowboy action sits in one of his holsters.

04-06-2013, 09:54 AM	#5
SteveM User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,016 Thanks: 94 Thanked 275 Times in 137 Posts	This looks to me like a 42 dated Commercial Banner. It is in the correct serial range, commercially proofed, has straw parts. Is there a Eagle over N on the front of the sight block? Is the barrel serial numbered? Is the barrel marked s/42? Is it 9mm or 30 caliber?

04-06-2013, 04:25 PM	#9
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,032 Thanks: 1,018 Thanked 3,873 Times in 1,184 Posts	It is a nice looking commercial banner. These pistols were sold to anyone besides the army who were able / allowed to purchase pistols. This includes private sales, police organisations, political organizations and probably some small exports here and there. 42 on a commercial version just means that they used a 42-dated receiver, that was probably left over from the military production run (which ended in 1942). Chances are that it was assembled and sold anywhere between 1942 and 1945.

04-09-2013, 07:47 PM	#10
lugersrkewl Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Ussr Posts: 425 Thanks: 198 Thanked 75 Times in 58 Posts	should a noncom. ser. placed be straw?

04-09-2013, 08:14 PM	#11
SteveM User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,016 Thanks: 94 Thanked 275 Times in 137 Posts	These are found in all kinds of different combinations; with or without proofs, with strawed or blued small parts, with bakelite or wood grips. Over on the other site, 46 pistols have been recorded in this serial range and of those 46 there were 16 different flavors noted. Only 2000 or so of these in this particular range of serial numbers.

12-10-2013, 04:25 PM	#13
johnii User Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 52 Thanks: 13 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	I think your above chamber area says "42" instead of "1942" and the Mauser Banner is something I am not familiar with. I have read the thread and know your gun is Mauser by the Mauser Bump but whether it was Military or not I don't know enough. I see where other posts say it is commercial or some such and to tell you the truth I don't think it is Third Reich issue from what I know. Lots of Luger pistols were made for civilians and Swiss and such commanding extreme prices. The moment a P-08 seems hard to define is the moment to figure it out after careful and timely research. The next thing I'd ask is if it shoots reliably without a hiccup. If it hiccups I'd get rid of it. Who wants a pistol that cannot function?

12-10-2013, 04:46 PM	#14
johnii User Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 52 Thanks: 13 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	I have no straw to throw into this post. I have seen "strawed" P-08s and when I do they are rather costly. They are for serious collectors who collect and decide never to shoot the gun for function. I only own working guns and I will not own a gun that doesn't work. Period.

12-10-2013, 04:52 PM	#15
johnii User Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 52 Thanks: 13 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	After all, I have 1873 Colt Single Action Army's in .44-40 WCF and .32-20 and they shoot to this day with the finest accuracy and reliability. Jump ahead to WWI or WWII in a Luger P-08 and if that won't fire reliably I have no interest in it. I'd rather have a Colt Frontier Six Shooter shooting .44-40 WCF and be done with it. I will not ever own a gun I cannot fire today for effect. I have no safe queens or priceless relics that can't be fired. I have an 1873 Colt Single Action I can fire to this day.

12-11-2013, 03:33 AM	#18
MikeP User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ILL Posts: 686 Thanks: 36 Thanked 452 Times in 198 Posts	Being more or less the resident grump, I'll say it. You come across like you are about 15 years old. Some of your other posts support this as well. Repeating semi related rants from various angles in the same thread make my head hurt and serve no real purpose. A lot of us have been around the block a time or twice and appreciate a good story. Not so much disjointed ramblings.