1913 DWM Commercial

[Jfisher]

Hello all,

New to the LugerForum. I have what appears to be a 1913 DWM commercial. One of the guns Dwight Gruber mentions in an excerpt from his report listed below. My gun's serial is 71172. Has anyone been able to narrow down how many of these were produced? The only other one I've seen is in the Doug Smith collection but that one doesn't have a stock lug.

"At the beginning of the war, very approximately around sn 71000, serial number reporting shows that commercial production was drastically curtailed. At this time, however, a very small number of a unique commercial variation appears. Designated â??1913 Commercialâ?� by Kenyon, these are standard 1914 commercial construction (with stock lug), but also having a grip safety. The thumb safety operates in the standard 1908/1914 mannerâ??on â??safeâ?� downâ??and is stamped GESICHERT. "


Thanks for your help. This is a great source of information.

Jim

[Edward Tinker]

Jim, welcome to the forum! We'd love to see photos and where proof marks are located.


Ed

[Jfisher]

Thank you for the welcome Ed. Attached are some pics.

Dwight here is info for you list.

1913 DWM Commercial - I believe it's one of the 71000's mentioned in your report. (see below). Dwight do you know
how many a "very small" number produced might be?

9mm
Serial- 71172
No Germany or export markings
Crown N proofs

"At the beginning of the war, very approximately around sn 71000, serial number reporting shows that commercial production was drastically curtailed. At this time, however, a very small number of a unique commercial variation appears. Designated â??1913 Commercialâ?� by Kenyon, these are standard 1914 commercial construction (with stock lug), but also having a grip safety. The thumb safety operates in the standard 1908/1914 mannerâ??on â??safeâ?� downâ??and is stamped GESICHERT. "

Thank you!

[Ron Wood]

Jim,
That is a great looking 1913 Commercial. I have no idea how many were produced, but they are very difficult to find. I have #71247 and it was sheer luck. It was for sale at auction and mis-identified. As Dwight has pointed out, "1913 Commercial" is a misnomer as they were almost certainly produced in 1914.

[MFC]

Jim,
If you ever want to sell it, please contact me. usermike3963@cs.com

[Jfisher]

Thanks Ron. Do you have pics of your 1913 posted anywhere?
I'd like to see it. What did they identify it as in the auction?

I wish we could narrow down more closely how many of these
were produced and still exist. I know that if Doug Smith has one it must be pretty rare. Here's the post for the 1913 from part of his collection he had at auction. That gun and quite a few of the other ones he listed didn't sell. The one he listed also is a full rig with correct commercial case.



Description:
*EXTREMELY RARE 1913 DWM COMMERCIAL LUGER & RIG. SN 71338. Cal. 9 mm. Very rare commercial model with 4" bbl, DWM scroll on front toggle link, grip safety & no stock lug. Gesichert safety marked in upper position. Grips & magazines are properly unnumbered with "D" inspector initials inside grips. It has commercial crown "N" proof on left side of receiver. Mounted with full checkered wood grips. Accompanied by two correct plain wood base magazines, cleaning rod & pin punch in an orig brown leather commercial holster with the correct leather covered buckle. It would be extremely difficult to find a better example of this rare model. PROVENANCE: Doug Smith Collection. CONDITION: Extraordinarily fine, all matching except grips, magazines & firing pin which are properly unnumbered. Overall retains 98-99% strong orig factory blue with only faint muzzle edge wear. A small corner of left grip is broken under safety but the chip is still in place. Magazines, pin punch & rod are all extremely fine. Mechanics are crisp, brilliant shiny bore. Holster is equally new with only very minor light handling marks. 4-36105 JR193
(15,000-20,000)

[Dwight Gruber]

(edited to remove inaccuracies)


Thanks much for the info. In the database, nine "1913 Commercials" are reported between sn 70610 and sn 71400, within the range 70590-71405. They are not contiguous. The nine guns reported between 71172-71400 include sn 71182 reported as a 1914 Commercial Army; and 70610 is way up the list, separated by a bunch of 1908 Commercials and Commmercial Armys . Doug's pistol noted above is unusual in not having a stock lug.

--Dwight

[Jfisher]

Thank you Dwight. Am I right then in saying that there are 8 confirmed "1913 Commercials" with grip safety reported so far out of a possible serial number range of approx. 228 guns?

Jim

[Dwight Gruber]

Jim,

Please note that I have revised my post above as a result of reading the database more closely.

To be excruciatingly correct, you would have to say that there are nine of these guns represented in my database within the serial range 70610-71400, with a correspondingly greater potential range. Remember, the database is a result of data reporting and research. The only "1913 Commercials" I can actually consider "confirmed" are the ones presented by you and Ron Wood.

--Dwight

[Jfisher]

Thank you Dwight. That gives me a much better idea as to numbers. I appreciate your efforts.

Jim