Would like to buy my first luger!

[jcjr]

Hello, I would like to buy my first luger, I like the look of the gun and do not have the budget to buy a collection piece. Thus, I would be fine with a Stoeger Erma Luger and a .22 caliber would be fine. Locally I can buy one of these for $325, is this a decent buy(assuming the gun looks fairly new) or should I keep looking? Guns America have the 9mm and .22 for $750 which is more than I want to pay.

[Edward Tinker]

The Erma is not a luger except with the words on it. I have also heard they do not function well. If you want to get into lugers, then you will have to pay a minimum of $500-$700 for a shooter, a collection piece can be $900-$1500 and more. They are expensive guns to get into.


Once you are approved, i will move this posting to the new Collectors area. I was a bit surprised to see two folks post here that had not been approved yet.

ed

[jcjr]

Thanks I have been told that the Erma is made from pot metal, which I assume, is of low quality and could not be trusted to last or worse not be safe? That is a shame because to my untrained eye, at least the Erma is a good looking copy of the Luger.

[pipeman45]

Don't wast your money. They are not the real deal and you will always want a real one. Save your money for a little longer and keep your eyes open for a deal on a REAL Luger, shooter grade.

[jcjr]

Is the Stainless Steel American Eagle Stoeger Luger available in the 1990's a decent shooter?

I saw a description of the difference between the real luger and the ermas besides the luger having better quality metal and parts that the erma is a blowback model(he gas blows the breech back to starting position?) while the real lugers are a "something locked?breech, something recoil, centerfire type gun. I am guessing that is how the luger operates and moves a new cartridge into the breech. What exactily are they talking about regarding the breech, recoil and centerfire?

Does the Colt .45 operate like the luger or is it a blowback type gun?

[Dwight Gruber]

Rimfire: Priming charge is located in the rimmed circumference at the base of the cartridge. Small caliber, low-power cartridges. Commonly .22 short, long, long-rifle, .22 magnum. Virtually all other modern ammunition is

Centerfire: Priming charge is in a small cap, inserted into the center of the cartridge base.

Blowback action: a simple mechanical combination in which the breech is kept closed at the moment of firing by the inertia of the slide and breechblock, and by the compression action of the recoil spring (and hammer spring, if present). This pressure counters the reaction impetus of the fired cartridge until the bullet has exited the barrel and the chamber pressure has dropped to a nominal amount, rendering the action safe to open and eject the spent shell. A blowback action is usable for cartridges of moderate power, up through .38, .380, and 9mm Largo. (Since we are talking autoloaders here, standard and exotic revolver cartridges are not part of this description). Cartridges more powerful than these require a

Locked breech: in order to assure that the reaction impetus doesn't cause the breech to open while there is still dangerous pressure in the firing chamber, possibly causing damage to the gun or the shooter. In a locked-breech system typically the barrel, breechblock and slide are solidly, mechanically linked together, and recoil under spring tension for a short distance within the frame. When the unit reaches a predetermined distance, a mechanical contrivance causes the breechblock to "unlock", to be able to travel independently from the barrel and extract, eject, and chamber a new round.

Gun designers have devised many different methods to lock the breech and barrel together and then unlock them, some simple and some excessively complex. It is the breech locking system which makes the Luger unique among almost all other autoloading firearms, gives it part of its distinctive 'look' and its phemonenal accuracy.

The model 1911 .45 Colt is a locked-breech design, but it doesn't operate anything at all like a Luger.

--Dwight

[jcjr]

Thanks, I will get one of my shooter friends to break down a .45 and perhaps a luger so I can visualize better what is going on in the split second before, during and after a cartride is launched!

[jcjr]

Hi Dwight,

Is the "phenominal accuracy" you refer have a lot to do with the fact that I read that the luger recoil is more of a straight back rearward recoil(thus allowing you to stay more "on target" vs the recoil of many pistols which tend to send the shooters hand "up" with the gun's kick? Why the difference?

Which guns(the blowback type?) and revolvers? tend to have this upward kick?

I have noticed lugers are often fired with one hand as other handguns are fired with two hands. Lugers have less upward kick?

What other well known guns fall into the upward kick vs a rearward kick category. Is it just a function of the blowback vs locked breech design? I have fired a GP100 Ruger revolver and the frame absorbed right much of the kick compared to a smaller framed .38 which seem to bite at my hand with its nasty kick. The .45's I fired seemed to kick more upwards than the GP100 Ruger if I am remembering correctly and again the larger frame seemed to absorb some of the kick. I am looking forward to firing a luger someday. My friends erma .22, I wonder, if it will shoot anything like a real luger due to the way it fits in the shooter's hand or different due to fact I think it may be a different recoil system? The Erma has a different recoil system I think? Blowback? Or since it has a similar looking rear (knurls)?, is it a similar system? I have ordered 3 books on the luger so that will help get things sorted out also, Luger Tips, The Luger Story: The Standard History of the World's Most Famous
Handgun...and The Luger Handbook!


Color me curious, its chilly here in Greensboro, NC, keeping me indoors and off my motorcycle!

JC

[Edward Tinker]

I shoot the luger with two hands, it is more accurate because I can hold it steadier. I shoot a luger one handed as often as I shoot a 1911 or other pistol, it all depends on what I feel like doing that day.

Accuracy is many things, one thing is the set-up of the barrel to the rest of the gun. A 1911 barrel is not as "locked" tight as say a luger is. So that is one reason it has better accuracy (of course a colt guy might say otherwise! Oh, I am a colt guy, and a luger guy and a ...)

ed

[jcjr]

Is the Stainless Steel American Eagle Stoeger Luger available in the 1990's a decent shooter?

I really appreciate the distinctive one of a kind look of the luger, but I would really like to have the most reliable shooter available. Am I better off with one of the early ones, between the wars one, or a ww2 one, or a post war police gun or something like Stoeger american eagles?

I would hate to buy one and then have to spend several hundred dollars for a gunsmith repair just because I fired 50 or so rounds a year.

And what should I look for in a reliable shooter? Smooth bore, obvious signs of rust,wear and abuse, obviously. Anything else?

Still chilly in Greensboro, NC!

[Ron Smith]

JC,
Some pistol and rifle designs have what is referred to as "intrinsic" accuracy. Meaning that just by the very design of the firearm. They are inherently accurate.

In otherwords, things just come together, and they shoot very well. The Luger is one of these. A combination of grip angle, close fit tollerences, general overall design, etc.

The 1911 Colt was designed to function in combat conditions, rain ,mud ,grit, you name it. With a bit of work they can be very accurate, but usually not out of the box.

There's an old adage that came about after WWI.

The British SMLE(short magazine Lee Enfield) is a battle rifle.(very reliable in battle field conditions)

The German 98 Mauser is a sporting rifle.(reasonably accurate and reliable)

The Springfield 1903 is a target rifle.(intrinsicly accurate)

Ron

[thegundude]

JC, IMHO, the stainless Luger redo of the '90s would make a fine shooter. But at $750+, they're not as cheap as a shooter grade, though original Luger. If I were you I'd start looking through some of the auction sights or GunsAmerica. You should be able to pick up an authentic Luger to shoot for $500. It may be more than what you're looking to spend, but it's just about as good as you can do and still have a Luger.

IMHO.