fake drum serial?

G.T. · 05-15-2021, 02:35 PM

Hi to all, can anyone tell me what the number is , when the digits of the serial number are added together, which denotes a fake drum? I thought it was 17 but not sure? Thanks, best to all, til....lat'r....GT

cirelaw · 05-15-2021, 02:47 PM

Luger Folklore~ https://www.collectorsfirearms.com/b...-magazine.html

Vlim · 05-15-2021, 02:59 PM

Yes, the numbers add up to 17.

Most also have a splotchy spattered rust pattern applied to them.

Norme · 05-15-2021, 03:46 PM

Hi G.T.
There is another distinguishing feature (God forbid you should pass-up a genuine drum whose numbers just happen to add up to 17), the serial number fonts are different. While both authentic and fake drums have identical fonts on their rims (the charge numbers) the serial number fonts differ. The fake drums use the same font on both their rims and their serials, the authentic drum's serial font is noticeably different, it uses a flat topped #3.
You may well ask what happens if there is no #3 in a genuine serial number that just happens to add up to 17? Then G.T., you are up Schitts Creek, as they say on T.V.
Norm

G.T. · 05-15-2021, 04:35 PM

Thanks Norm and Vlim, it is definitely a fake! All the way from the font addition and type to the scattered rust spots... BUT! That having been said, they're really, really well made for a copy? The biggest tip off for me was the sloppy spot welding? Then I looked further and hence the forum inquiry... Now to make it work!.....

...Thanks guys, best to all, til....lat'r.....GT.....

lugerholsterrepair · 05-15-2021, 11:30 PM

I call the fake number "carnival" fancy. The original German numbers are very plain.

cirelaw · 05-16-2021, 10:40 PM

He lists over a hundred drums, both first and second later model lists over 200 with only a few if any total 17 numbers listed, pages 114 to 118!!!! Several Hundred!!! I Bought both from George Anderson! My first Nurnburg #17732 and second #400271~I don't know where the 17 came from ??? Get the book! https://www.amazon.com/Luger-Snail-O.../dp/1931464421

lugerholsterrepair · 05-17-2021, 04:55 PM

George Anderson was the Co author for Ed Sayer's book when Ed died although his heirs refused to recognize him. Little know facts of Luger lore.

cirelaw · 05-17-2021, 05:05 PM

George Anderson always sold me the finest lugers and accessories including my two drums, loader and dust cover~ I never asked where he got them, I didn't have to!

JTD · 05-18-2021, 08:14 PM

George is one of the finest Luger bloodhounds on the planet Eric......

Mark1 · 05-18-2021, 09:21 PM

Hi Norm,
Looking at your photos of fake #112319 above. It seems like the B/N Bing symbol could be electro-pencil engraved, rather than stamped ?
Thanks again for your informative post.
Mark

Norme · 05-18-2021, 09:52 PM

Hi Mark,
I must confess that I never looked at the B/N mark that closely before, but now that you mention it, I think you are correct.
I downloaded the two photos of #112319 from a US dealer's web site a few years ago, before the number 17 thing became common knowledge.
Regards, Norm

cirelaw · 05-18-2021, 10:12 PM

Wrong, Most fakes wind up with '17'Some may by chance wind up with '17'. Over 400 contained in the book, either old or new models don't!!!! Are they all Fakes! Is George Anderson and others wrong?? Did He Sell Me Two Fakes? NOT!!! Issue discussed in Jans' Forum!!!!!Did the '17 apply to both OLD and NEW models?? Mine are Nurnberg 1st issue/type Type one #17732 and Nurnberg 2nd issue/type '400271' ~See~

G.T. · 05-18-2021, 10:46 PM

Hi to all, in working on this recently established reproduction drum, I'm pretty sure there is way more to this than we are aware of? Forming dies to make these parts are not just lying around everywhere? The repro drums are a very close copy, and well made with regard to gauge of metal and accuracy of formed parts?
The tells that give it away are consistent and once known, obvious? But the question is, why? I think the parts were made on left over original equipment somewhere , sometime ago..... They would have been better off to not mark them or number them at all.... best to all, til....lat'r....GT...

cirelaw · 05-18-2021, 11:21 PM

Hi My Hero, I Agree, Leave As Is! God Bless! PS~ Stay Away From '17' Total!!!!!

cirelaw · 05-19-2021, 02:50 PM

A Must Read In Jans' Drum Thread Last Year! Regarding '17' https://www.lugerforums.com/threads/...or-sale.30933/

05-15-2021, 02:47 PM	#2
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Luger Folklore~ https://www.collectorsfirearms.com/b...-magazine.html Attached Thumbnails

05-15-2021, 04:35 PM	#5
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,485 Thanks: 1,283 Thanked 3,581 Times in 989 Posts	It's fake! Thanks Norm and Vlim, it is definitely a fake! All the way from the font addition and type to the scattered rust spots... BUT! That having been said, they're really, really well made for a copy? The biggest tip off for me was the sloppy spot welding? Then I looked further and hence the forum inquiry... Now to make it work!..... ...Thanks guys, best to all, til....lat'r.....GT.....

05-15-2021, 11:30 PM	#6
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	I call the fake number "carnival" fancy. The original German numbers are very plain. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

05-16-2021, 10:40 PM	#7
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	I Checked 'The Luger Snail Drum By Edward C. Sayre_ He lists over a hundred drums, both first and second later model lists over 200 with only a few if any total 17 numbers listed, pages 114 to 118!!!! Several Hundred!!! I Bought both from George Anderson! My first Nurnburg #17732 and second #400271~I don't know where the 17 came from ??? Get the book! https://www.amazon.com/Luger-Snail-O.../dp/1931464421 Attached Thumbnails

05-17-2021, 04:55 PM	#8
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	George Anderson was the Co author for Ed Sayer's book when Ed died although his heirs refused to recognize him. Little know facts of Luger lore. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

05-15-2021, 02:35 PM	#1
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,485 Thanks: 1,283 Thanked 3,581 Times in 989 Posts	fake drum serial? Hi to all, can anyone tell me what the number is , when the digits of the serial number are added together, which denotes a fake drum? I thought it was 17 but not sure? Thanks, best to all, til....lat'r....GT

05-15-2021, 02:59 PM	#3
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,032 Thanks: 1,018 Thanked 3,873 Times in 1,184 Posts	Yes, the numbers add up to 17. Most also have a splotchy spattered rust pattern applied to them.

05-15-2021, 03:46 PM	#4
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,414 Thanks: 224 Thanked 2,591 Times in 930 Posts	Hi G.T. There is another distinguishing feature (God forbid you should pass-up a genuine drum whose numbers just happen to add up to 17), the serial number fonts are different. While both authentic and fake drums have identical fonts on their rims (the charge numbers) the serial number fonts differ. The fake drums use the same font on both their rims and their serials, the authentic drum's serial font is noticeably different, it uses a flat topped #3. You may well ask what happens if there is no #3 in a genuine serial number that just happens to add up to 17? Then G.T., you are up Schitts Creek, as they say on T.V. Norm Attached Thumbnails

05-17-2021, 05:05 PM	#9
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	George Anderson always sold me the finest lugers and accessories including my two drums, loader and dust cover~ I never asked where he got them, I didn't have to!

05-18-2021, 08:14 PM	#10
JTD User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: PA Posts: 424 Thanks: 214 Thanked 407 Times in 148 Posts	George is one of the finest Luger bloodhounds on the planet Eric......

05-18-2021, 09:21 PM	#11
Mark1 User Join Date: May 2008 Location: New Zealand Posts: 72 Thanks: 332 Thanked 74 Times in 25 Posts	Hi Norm, Looking at your photos of fake #112319 above. It seems like the B/N Bing symbol could be electro-pencil engraved, rather than stamped ? Thanks again for your informative post. Mark Last edited by Mark1; 05-19-2021 at 06:29 PM. Reason: Spelling

05-18-2021, 09:52 PM	#12
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,414 Thanks: 224 Thanked 2,591 Times in 930 Posts	Hi Mark, I must confess that I never looked at the B/N mark that closely before, but now that you mention it, I think you are correct. I downloaded the two photos of #112319 from a US dealer's web site a few years ago, before the number 17 thing became common knowledge. Regards, Norm

05-18-2021, 10:12 PM	#13
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Wrong, Most fakes wind up with '17'Some may by chance wind up with '17'. Over 400 contained in the book, either old or new models don't!!!! Are they all Fakes! Is George Anderson and others wrong?? Did He Sell Me Two Fakes? NOT!!! Issue discussed in Jans' Forum!!!!!Did the '17 apply to both OLD and NEW models?? Mine are Nurnberg 1st issue/type Type one #17732 and Nurnberg 2nd issue/type '400271' ~See~ Attached Thumbnails

05-18-2021, 10:46 PM	#14
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,485 Thanks: 1,283 Thanked 3,581 Times in 989 Posts	repro drums? Hi to all, in working on this recently established reproduction drum, I'm pretty sure there is way more to this than we are aware of? Forming dies to make these parts are not just lying around everywhere? The repro drums are a very close copy, and well made with regard to gauge of metal and accuracy of formed parts? The tells that give it away are consistent and once known, obvious? But the question is, why? I think the parts were made on left over original equipment somewhere , sometime ago..... They would have been better off to not mark them or number them at all.... best to all, til....lat'r....GT...

05-18-2021, 11:21 PM	#15
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Hi My Hero, I Agree, Leave As Is! God Bless! PS~ Stay Away From '17' Total!!!!!

05-19-2021, 02:50 PM	#16
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	A Must Read In Jans' Drum Thread Last Year! Regarding '17' https://www.lugerforums.com/threads/...or-sale.30933/