Lack Of Vogelsang Stampings...?

Pete Ebbink · 07-31-2004, 12:52 AM

On the first 500 or so M1900 Swiss Odnance lugers, the inspection stamp of Vogelsang (+/V) is absent from the left side of the receiver.

Any theories as to why these DWM-Swiss lugers were not inspected/stamped by Vogelsang ?

As I understand, Vogelsang was the Swiss inspector from 1879 to 1912. In 1913 to 1941. Muhlemann took over.

The +/V stamping does appear on the M1882 Swiss revolvers, but it is not 100% sure if this was Vogelsang or not...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Lugerdoc · 07-31-2004, 09:07 AM

Off the top of my head, I recall that there were M1900 Swiss commericals available, that will not be military accepted. TH

Ron Wood · 07-31-2004, 10:50 AM

Tom,
I believe that both the early military and commercial Swiss have the Swiss Federal Cross firing proofs on the barrel and receiver, but in addition the commercial pieces will be BUG proofed. The military pieces do not have the BUG proof and I have no idea why Vogelsang didn't inspect the first lot.

Pete Ebbink · 08-03-2004, 11:48 AM

Hi Ron,

Only speculation on my part...but maybe the travel arrangments for Vogelsang to come to DWM in Germany had just not been worked out with the first 500 or so M1900 DWM-Swiss lugers.

I have noticed on all the early M1900 Swiss lugers I have seen that are Vogelsang stamped is that the +/V stamping is beneath the bluing and is usually not sharp and seems like it has been sanded/polished down a bit before the gun was blued. On these same guns I have seen, it appears the finish is original.

This might indicate that Voglesang, for the later early M1900's, came over to Germany to inspect while the gun was "in the white" and then the DWM completed the finishing and polishing...after he went back to CH...

The other small Swiss crosses on these piece seem to have been struck after bluing (i.e. with upsets in the bluing)...which may indicate CH inspection and proofing steps in CH once DWM shipped the guns to Bern...

Just a WAG...

Pete.. <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

07-31-2004, 12:52 AM	#1
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Lack Of Vogelsang Stampings...? On the first 500 or so M1900 Swiss Odnance lugers, the inspection stamp of Vogelsang (+/V) is absent from the left side of the receiver. Any theories as to why these DWM-Swiss lugers were not inspected/stamped by Vogelsang ? As I understand, Vogelsang was the Swiss inspector from 1879 to 1912. In 1913 to 1941. Muhlemann took over. The +/V stamping does appear on the M1882 Swiss revolvers, but it is not 100% sure if this was Vogelsang or not... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

07-31-2004, 09:07 AM	#2
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Off the top of my head, I recall that there were M1900 Swiss commericals available, that will not be military accepted. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

07-31-2004, 10:50 AM	#3
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,987 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,090 Times in 1,675 Posts	Tom, I believe that both the early military and commercial Swiss have the Swiss Federal Cross firing proofs on the barrel and receiver, but in addition the commercial pieces will be BUG proofed. The military pieces do not have the BUG proof and I have no idea why Vogelsang didn't inspect the first lot. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

08-03-2004, 11:48 AM	#4
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Ron, Only speculation on my part...but maybe the travel arrangments for Vogelsang to come to DWM in Germany had just not been worked out with the first 500 or so M1900 DWM-Swiss lugers. I have noticed on all the early M1900 Swiss lugers I have seen that are Vogelsang stamped is that the +/V stamping is beneath the bluing and is usually not sharp and seems like it has been sanded/polished down a bit before the gun was blued. On these same guns I have seen, it appears the finish is original. This might indicate that Voglesang, for the later early M1900's, came over to Germany to inspect while the gun was "in the white" and then the DWM completed the finishing and polishing...after he went back to CH... The other small Swiss crosses on these piece seem to have been struck after bluing (i.e. with upsets in the bluing)...which may indicate CH inspection and proofing steps in CH once DWM shipped the guns to Bern... Just a WAG... Pete.. <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />