you want realy longer barrels

[bill mc donough]

i have a 18 1/2 inch barrel more or less a carbine the weight of the barrel slows down the action i hade a luger with a 16 inch in 9 mm but sold it both had custom loads made by a freind of mine in westwood n.j. the 18 inch is 30. cal i put in standard fiocchi it would fire but not cycle the 9mm did the same so if you want carbine lenth you will have to do the same good luck remember i had a expert of 25 years of reloading do it it is not for beginners

[HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr]

The big risk of loading up ammo for heavy barrels and espsially in ,30 caliber is that the gaspreasure gets bloody high.

The lower the bulletweight the higher must the gaspreasure be to archive the high recoil needed for recoiling back the heavy barrels.

So if wanting to reloading highrecoilrounds for stiff guns I belive that the best would be to use as heavy bullets as possible cause there will not the gaspreasure be as high, and this will as i see it save the guns.


Regards HÃ?Â¥kan



http://www.vapensmedjan.com

[Gene]

While a heavier bullet increases the momentum for a given powder charge (or bullet energy), it would be mistaken to think that the pressure is decreased.


As explained in my post on Longer Barrels, the more massive the recoiling parts, the less recoil energy there is. With long barrel Lugers (with more mass), one will find that it eventually becomes impossible to automatically cycle the piece, regardless of springs, etc., simply because there is insufficient recoil energy.


Incidentally, it follows that the assisting spring in the forearm of the 02 carbine was an unnecessary design feature since the same function could have been performed with the mainspring (as demonstrated on the 12" Lugers without a forearm).

[HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr]

To archive the sufficient recoil to operate a gun you will get lower preasure with heavy bullets than with lighter bullets.

This is like compereing 9x19 and .45 acp.

,45 acp have much easyer to operate an automatic firearm than a 9mm have and the recoil of the .45 is more but slower. And still the .45 acp is working on half the gaspreasure of the 9x19.

To archive as much recoil energy with the 9x19 as the .45 acp you have to load the 9x19 really hot( ie bloody high preasure).


I fully agree with you about the unneccery extra spring in the foreend of the carbine.

What the gun is needing is extra power in getting the action to open and not to close.

I think the only way of solwing a really heavy barrel on a luger is to have a gaskick betwen the barrel and the forend.

This way the heavy recoilspring could still be there.


Regards HÃ?Â¥kan



http://www.vapensmedjan.com

[Gene]

The energy that a powder charge delivers to the bullet is, fortunately, much greater than that delivered to the recoiling assembly -- although the momentum of the bullet is equal (but opposite) to that of the recoiling assembly. As the mass of the bullet decreases, slightly more energy is delivered to the bullet, and slightly less is delivered to the recoiling assembly.


For the same amount of recoil energy, either the powder charge must be increased, or a faster burning powder must be utilized. Both of these changes would indeed result in higher pressures. However, if the powder charge is the same as before, a more massive bullet can be expected to produce higher, not lower, pressure. (Imagine the extreme, limiting case, where the mass of the bullet is large enough to be considered a "plugged" barrel. Usually, the resulting pressure will cause a bulged or burst barrel!)


Regards,

Gene

[HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr]

Gene you are simply looking at this from the wrong direction.

You never load a round that way, just swaping out a 115gr bullet to a 147grain and expecting that to work.

But if you comperes two safe loadings one 115 grain bullet and one with a 147 grain bullet you will find that the 147 grain bullet delivers more recoil energy.

Don't mix up this discussion with burning rates and grains of powder cause that is not relevant.

Of the same reason have several compeetition shooters over the years tried to use as light bullets as possible in order to lower the recoil energy.

This was espeisally true in IPSC where a 9x19 major was perfectly possible to load with a heavy bullet but everyone wanted the 115 grain in order to have lower recoil.


Regards HÃ?Â¥kan



http://www.vapensmedjan.com

[Gene]

In which post did anyone ever suggest that a heavier bullet produces less recoil?


The concern was that no one would ever make the potentially serious mistake of assuming that a heavier bullet produces lower internal barrel pressure -- without simultaneously making other adjustments to ensure safety.


Regards,

Gene