YOU HAVE TO SEE THIS ! [ Long ]

02-06-2002, 02:13 AM

BATFÃ¢??s ALTERNATIVE form of FIREARMS REGISTERATION

(THIS IS A CUT AND PASTE FROM YOUR BATF LICENSE REG's)

[Question]

Must a licensee's records be surrendered to ATF if the licensee discontinues his business? [Top]

[Answer]

If the business is being discontinued completely, the licensed dealer, manufacturer or importer is required, within 30 days, to forward his records to the following address:

Bureau of ATF

Out-of-Business Records Center

882 T.J. Jackson Drive

Falling Waters, West Virginia 25419

Failure to surrender your required records is a felony and could result in the licensee being fined up to $250,000, imprisoned up to five years, or both. A licensee discontinuing business must immediately notify the licensing center in Atlanta, Georgia.

If someone is taking over the business, the original licensee will underline the final entry in each bound book, note the date of transfer, and forward all records and forms to the successor (who must apply for and receive his own license before lawfully engaging in business) or forward the records and forms to the ATF Out-of-Business Records Center. If the successor licensee receives records and forms from the original licensee, the successor licensee may choose to forward these records and forms to the ATF Out-of-Business Record Center. The successor licensee will begin business with a new set of records reflecting any beginning inventory on hand.

[18 U. S. C. 923(g)(4), 27 CFR 178.127]

[Question]

What records am I required to forward to ATF upon discontinuance of my business? [Top]

[Answer]

The records consist of the licensee's bound acquisition/disposition (A/D) records, ATF Forms 4473, ATF Forms 5300.35 (the Brady forms), ATF Forms 3310.4 (Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of Pistols and Revolvers), and records of transactions in semiautomatic assault weapons. If the licensee was granted a variance to use a computerized recordkeeping system, the licensee is required to provide a complete print-out of his entire A/D records, and an ASCII tet file (conforming to common industry standards) along with a file description.

[27 CFR 178.127]

stymie · 02-06-2002, 10:18 AM

by this decree! =)

BILL · 02-06-2002, 02:15 PM

Yes, that is the way it has always been (since I can remember). That is one reason a lot of people don't like acquiring firearms through FFL dealers. No paper is a big plus.

02-06-2002, 10:01 PM

Hi Stymie,

I had no intention of implying that this has any effect on any others than Importers, Dealers, and Gunsmiths.

My intent was to show that there is a "Permanent Record" kept, by, or at the disposal of the BATF, FBI, and Heaven only knows who else, of any and almost all Legal Business Transactions involving the transfer of ownership of any Modern Firearm.

Even those out of state purchases that passed through the hands of any of the above three business types.

I would give a WAG that this involves 90% to 95% of all legal transfers of gun ownership.

This is a form of register that allows the tracing of guns down to a science, that is daily practiced by the FBI and Local Police, in crime investigation.

I have no quarrel with it when used in a proper fashion.

I just hope that it is not ever used improperly, To the Demise of the 2 nd Ammendment rights of the honest law abiding citizen.

ViggoG

Big Norm · 02-07-2002, 01:22 AM

We must be aware that different states have different laws. In Michigan, You can not legally take a pistol to a firing range, hunting and so forth without having a permit for that pistol in your possession. Also, there are differences between a dealers license and a C&R. A dealer may get a special form that will allow him to buy a pistol from a Michigan resident without a permit and the form does not have any date limitations on it. A C&R holder must get a purchase permit before buying a pistol from a Michigan resident and the permit is good for only ten days. Getting a purchase permit varies from city to city and can range from standing at the counter for someone to type it to 30 days for the chief of police to approve it. You may leave the permit at the police station for 30 days before it is invalid. The 10 day time limit begans when you take it from the police station.

A Michigan C&R holder can buy a pistol from a resident of another state without a purchase permit. But a puchase permit is required when he gets the gun to Michigan. No background check is required from a C&R holder. But dealers are required to get a background check. But background checks are automatically done when we apply for a purchase permit.

My arguement with my fellow C&R buddies is, I buy a pistol in another state with my C&R and I log it in my book. I then get a pistol permit in Michigan for that gun. Then I sell that pistol to another Michigander who does not have a FFL but does have a Michigan pistol purchase permit. Do I have to log that sale in my FFL book?

Big Norm

02-06-2002, 02:13 AM	#1
Viggo G Dereng Guest Posts: n/a	YOU HAVE TO SEE THIS ! [ Long ] BATFÃ¢??s ALTERNATIVE form of FIREARMS REGISTERATION (THIS IS A CUT AND PASTE FROM YOUR BATF LICENSE REG's) [Question] Must a licensee's records be surrendered to ATF if the licensee discontinues his business? [Top] [Answer] If the business is being discontinued completely, the licensed dealer, manufacturer or importer is required, within 30 days, to forward his records to the following address: Bureau of ATF Out-of-Business Records Center 882 T.J. Jackson Drive Falling Waters, West Virginia 25419 Failure to surrender your required records is a felony and could result in the licensee being fined up to $250,000, imprisoned up to five years, or both. A licensee discontinuing business must immediately notify the licensing center in Atlanta, Georgia. If someone is taking over the business, the original licensee will underline the final entry in each bound book, note the date of transfer, and forward all records and forms to the successor (who must apply for and receive his own license before lawfully engaging in business) or forward the records and forms to the ATF Out-of-Business Records Center. If the successor licensee receives records and forms from the original licensee, the successor licensee may choose to forward these records and forms to the ATF Out-of-Business Record Center. The successor licensee will begin business with a new set of records reflecting any beginning inventory on hand. [18 U. S. C. 923(g)(4), 27 CFR 178.127] [Question] What records am I required to forward to ATF upon discontinuance of my business? [Top] [Answer] The records consist of the licensee's bound acquisition/disposition (A/D) records, ATF Forms 4473, ATF Forms 5300.35 (the Brady forms), ATF Forms 3310.4 (Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of Pistols and Revolvers), and records of transactions in semiautomatic assault weapons. If the licensee was granted a variance to use a computerized recordkeeping system, the licensee is required to provide a complete print-out of his entire A/D records, and an ASCII tet file (conforming to common industry standards) along with a file description. [27 CFR 178.127]

02-06-2002, 10:18 AM	#2
stymie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: KC,MO USA Posts: 114 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	C&R license holders are not affected... by this decree! =)

02-06-2002, 02:15 PM	#3
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re:(OT) YOU HAVE TO SEE THIS ! [ Long ] Yes, that is the way it has always been (since I can remember). That is one reason a lot of people don't like acquiring firearms through FFL dealers. No paper is a big plus.

02-06-2002, 10:01 PM	#4
Viggo G Dereng Guest Posts: n/a	Re: C&R license holders are not affected... Hi Stymie, I had no intention of implying that this has any effect on any others than Importers, Dealers, and Gunsmiths. My intent was to show that there is a "Permanent Record" kept, by, or at the disposal of the BATF, FBI, and Heaven only knows who else, of any and almost all Legal Business Transactions involving the transfer of ownership of any Modern Firearm. Even those out of state purchases that passed through the hands of any of the above three business types. I would give a WAG that this involves 90% to 95% of all legal transfers of gun ownership. This is a form of register that allows the tracing of guns down to a science, that is daily practiced by the FBI and Local Police, in crime investigation. I have no quarrel with it when used in a proper fashion. I just hope that it is not ever used improperly, To the Demise of the 2 nd Ammendment rights of the honest law abiding citizen. ViggoG

02-07-2002, 01:22 AM	#5
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Different States - Different Strokes We must be aware that different states have different laws. In Michigan, You can not legally take a pistol to a firing range, hunting and so forth without having a permit for that pistol in your possession. Also, there are differences between a dealers license and a C&R. A dealer may get a special form that will allow him to buy a pistol from a Michigan resident without a permit and the form does not have any date limitations on it. A C&R holder must get a purchase permit before buying a pistol from a Michigan resident and the permit is good for only ten days. Getting a purchase permit varies from city to city and can range from standing at the counter for someone to type it to 30 days for the chief of police to approve it. You may leave the permit at the police station for 30 days before it is invalid. The 10 day time limit begans when you take it from the police station. A Michigan C&R holder can buy a pistol from a resident of another state without a purchase permit. But a puchase permit is required when he gets the gun to Michigan. No background check is required from a C&R holder. But dealers are required to get a background check. But background checks are automatically done when we apply for a purchase permit. My arguement with my fellow C&R buddies is, I buy a pistol in another state with my C&R and I log it in my book. I then get a pistol permit in Michigan for that gun. Then I sell that pistol to another Michigander who does not have a FFL but does have a Michigan pistol purchase permit. Do I have to log that sale in my FFL book? Big Norm