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Unread 07-29-2016, 03:54 AM   #1
Michael Zeleny
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Default Crown Over Something

This 1915 DWM LP08 serial number 1162a has stumped me with its leftmost proof mark:



The barrel features British pressure test markings on the bottom. High resolution photos can be seen and downloaded here:
https://goo.gl/photos/c4w4RkMdndDecac17

I would be very grateful for your learned instruction.
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Unread 07-29-2016, 08:02 AM   #2
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Hi Michael. Nice Artillery. Unfortunately I can't see web storage sites as the one where you posted the Hi-Res photos because I am behind a firewall that prohibits access to those sights. Did you try to post them on Lugerforum.com using the "manage attachments" feature?

If that failed, how about cropping one of the Hi-Res photos and limit the photo to the area where the stamps you are inquiring about. That should not be an issue to post...

Thanks. -John
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Unread 07-29-2016, 08:02 AM   #3
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Micheal,

It is difficult to see clearly without a detail photo but it looks like the London proof house crown-CP final proof.
KFS
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Unread 07-29-2016, 10:21 AM   #4
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Thank you, gentlemen. I’ll crack out my macro lens and see how much detail I can capture in a reshoot over the weekend.
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Unread 07-29-2016, 01:02 PM   #5
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Hard to see. But it looks like a Belgian Liege proof.
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Unread 07-29-2016, 05:22 PM   #6
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Michael,

The proof mark I cited above looks like this.
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Unread 07-29-2016, 06:50 PM   #7
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Karl,
That is what it looks like to me also. I tried to grab an image to enlarge but there is something about that web page that precludes it. Maybe someone else will be more successful (Michael's added photos will probably do the trick). In the meantime I agree that it is most likely a London proof. If it is I would expect that there is a "..tons.." pressure proof marking on the barrel and a "Not English Make" marking somewhere.
Ron

Whoops....I should have read the initial post more carefully. Michael already said there is a pressure test marking on the barrel.
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Unread 07-29-2016, 07:40 PM   #8
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Hi Michael,
I am fairly certain this is the crown/GP mark of the London Proof House from 1925. If a pressure mark is also present this, in addition, indicates post 1954.
Very nice pistol.
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Unread 07-30-2016, 08:30 AM   #9
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It's my understanding that British law required all non-British made guns to go through one of the British proof houses if For Sale in GB. TH
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Unread 07-30-2016, 10:31 AM   #10
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I find it curious that the English would stamp a proof mark alongside, scaled, and aligned with the German proofs. They were meticulous enough to stamp the pressure test proof on the bottom of the barrel, why not leave the C/CP proof there as well???

Or is this another example of the inscrutable English mind???
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Unread 07-30-2016, 10:39 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepherder View Post
I find it curious that the English would stamp a proof mark alongside, scaled, and aligned with the German proofs. They were meticulous enough to stamp the pressure test proof on the bottom of the barrel, why not leave the C/CP proof there as well???

Or is this another example of the inscrutable English mind???
Because they have "rules", the pressure/view proof is on the receiver and most times also on the barrel; I think it similar to the German system of the pressure bearing pieces being "proofed" and marked. The Belgians stamp several places on the lugers proofed there-barrel, receiver, toggle are those I remember.
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Unread 07-30-2016, 11:14 AM   #12
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The gun proofing business has long been a cartel operated business, where proofing had to be paid for. So it was mostly a business decision to proof something, not logic.
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Unread 07-31-2016, 08:11 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by sheepherder
I find it curious that the English would stamp a proof mark alongside, scaled, and aligned with the German proofs. They were meticulous enough to stamp the pressure test proof on the bottom of the barrel, why not leave the C/CP proof there as well???

Or is this another example of the inscrutable English mind???


Quote:
Originally Posted by DonVoigt View Post
Because they have "rules", the pressure/view proof is on the receiver and most times also on the barrel; I think it similar to the German system of the pressure bearing pieces being "proofed" and marked. The Belgians stamp several places on the lugers proofed there-barrel, receiver, toggle are those I remember.
The principles of firearms proofing go back to 17th century England. The British proof laws of 1855 and 1868 are considered to be the basis for modern British proof law.

The draft of the first comprehensive German proof law, drafted in 1890 and passes in 1891, was based in large part (and considerable detail) on the earlier British proof laws.

--Dwight
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Unread 08-02-2016, 06:26 PM   #14
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The max I could do with my little PC
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