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Unread 09-29-2018, 08:19 AM   #1
Russ
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Default 1914 dwm

I have had three 1914 dated DWM artillery lugers cross my desk in the last month. Two of them were phony. it's a sad day for this hobby.
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Unread 09-29-2018, 09:53 AM   #2
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Russ, can you elaborate? I am always interested in how to spot phoneys. Some fakes are pretty obvious even to the collector with less experience. Others as we all know can be quite hard to identify.
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Unread 09-29-2018, 10:34 AM   #3
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Russ, One out of 3 is real...you snag that one? Might make a sad day a happy one!
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Unread 10-01-2018, 06:46 PM   #4
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jeb111

All the 1914 DWM artilleries are 3 digit serial numbers with no suffix letter. The people who fake them will take a 1915 or 1916 gun and change the date to 1914 because they bring more money. Look at the side profile of the top of the chamber. some will be dished where the number was taken off and re stamped.


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I wish. I am working at Morphy auctions now. I see a ton of good guns and a ton of bad guns. We have 88 lugers and 4 Borchardts in our next auction at the end of the month. We have a very nice collection of Lugers coming to market in our April auction. The best Dutch gun I have ever had the pleasure of handling and a few other rare guns.


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Unread 10-01-2018, 07:54 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Russ View Post
jeb111

All the 1914 DWM artilleries are 3 digit serial numbers with no suffix letter.
Several are known that have four digit serial numbers. I have owned 1200, 1203 and 1263. As Russ says, they never have a letter suffix and they all have triple crown over S acceptance stamps on the right side of the receiver.
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Unread 10-02-2018, 03:49 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ View Post
I have had three 1914 dated DWM artillery lugers cross my desk in the last month. Two of them were phony. it's a sad day for this hobby.
As years are passing by, finding phony vintage guns will be more more and more frequent.
Anyway I think that some detailed pictures of fakes evidencing their faults could be interesting and useful for the general knowledge of our Luger aficionados.
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Unread 10-02-2018, 09:14 AM   #7
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It would be helpful to know the particulars of the "fakes", just serial number and any egregious errors apparent, but pictures together with the above would be best.
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Unread 10-02-2018, 02:07 PM   #8
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Don,
A counterpoint to your suggestion would be to make a file of all of the salient features of a legitimate 1914 DWM Artillery. There is only a small pool of known 1914 DWM Artillerys that should all have the same features. Granted that there are many creative mechanics, but a bogus Artillery might not fit the same feature listing.
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Unread 10-04-2018, 06:53 AM   #9
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I hope the OP posts pictures. It would be great for educational purposes.
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Unread 10-04-2018, 09:13 AM   #10
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Don,
A counterpoint to your suggestion would be to make a file of all of the salient features of a legitimate 1914 DWM Artillery. There is only a small pool of known 1914 DWM Artillerys that should all have the same features. Granted that there are many creative mechanics, but a bogus Artillery might not fit the same feature listing.
Dick,
I think we know what a 1914 should look like.
1914 receiver date with cut
Triple crown S right chamber proofing
serial numbers in the low 1000, or less.

Otherwise they look like the 1915 and early 1916.

If I left out something, George will add it.

To call out a fake, there must have been some "glaring" error, easily visible, like the serial number or proofing.

This is what I was asking, just knowing the serial number of the fakes would help, similar to Norm's navy list where spurious Navy lugers are noted.
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Unread 10-04-2018, 01:08 PM   #11
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Don,
You are correct, the early year DWM artillery Lugers has many common features. Some of the early 1915 artillery even have three crown/S proof marks could these be altered?
With the small number of known 1914 DWM artillery Lugers perhaps there is a commonality of inspector and assembly marks unique to this variation.
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Unread 10-04-2018, 03:17 PM   #12
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Dick,
I would think the deep and large date on the chamber would be tough to change without its being noticeable.

You are right about the 1915 artys, they also have the triple c/s proofing, at least in the early numbers. I recently sold a 3 digit 1915- which except for the "4" in 1914 was identical to the 1914 dated ones.
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Unread 10-06-2018, 01:41 PM   #13
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In scanning through Morphy's offerings last night I noted these "1914 artillery Lugers" labled as fakes, with the text describing the incorrect features. They would make interesting shooters. Fascinating but also sobering that mechanics will go to this much trouble.
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Unread 10-06-2018, 08:49 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ View Post
jeb111

I am working at Morphy auctions now. I see a ton of good guns and a ton of bad guns. We have 88 lugers and 4 Borchardts in our next auction at the end of the month. We have a very nice collection of Lugers coming to market in our April auction. The best Dutch gun I have ever had the pleasure of handling and a few other rare guns.


Russ
Perhaps you can fix the Navy Luger descriptions.

Four say the extractor is marked "giladen", hopefully a typo since the correct marking is "geladen".

Lot 542 is identified as a P.08. All Imperial Navy Lugers with 150mm barrels are P.04s.
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Unread 10-06-2018, 09:24 PM   #15
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Hi Russ,
May I compliment you, or whoever else was involved, on the new Morphy sale catalog. The descriptions, despite a few small errors, seem to be honest and informative. The photos are superb.
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