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Unread 03-11-2016, 09:32 AM   #1
DonVoigt
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Smile 1917 LP 08 Artillery- Red 9 grips

I recently traded on of my Japanese rifles for this nice 1917 LP 08.

This example shows the variety with adjustable or fine tune rear
sight and fixed front sight, along with the "9" burned into the grips and filled with matte red paint.

Pistol is matching except for the magazine and came with a great 1916 dated holster, cleaning rod, tool , and numbered but mismatched stock. Straps missing to the rig, so I'll have to rectify that.

The reason for the Red 9 on the grips is a bit of a mystery or puzzle; as all LP 08s were in 9mm - why the need for the highly visible 9 in the grip!

In a few days I will be able to do a comparison with a similar "black 9" gripped LP 08- as I "won" one in the recent RIA auction.
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Unread 03-11-2016, 09:35 AM   #2
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Don
Very nice!!! Bill
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Unread 03-11-2016, 09:43 AM   #3
George Anderson
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Don, the "9" that is found on some 1917 grips is believed to be due to bureaucratic confusion with a touch of zeal. At the same time the 9mm C96 was being delivered to the front it was directed that every infantry company be issued ten LP08s. Due to the confusion caused by the new calibre C96, a follow-up order went out instructing units to mark the grips of the new 9mm pistols.
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Unread 03-11-2016, 10:04 AM   #4
Sergio Natali
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George

Thanks quite interesting I didn't know it, I've learnt something new.


Best.
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Unread 03-11-2016, 10:05 AM   #5
DavidJayUden
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Nice gun! That must have been some Japanese rifle...
dju
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Unread 03-11-2016, 11:52 AM   #6
Don M
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Don, the 9s appear to be field-applied which is consistent with George's comments.
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Unread 03-11-2016, 01:23 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidJayUden View Post
Nice gun! That must have been some Japanese rifle...
dju

Yes, one of around 20 known as "for education" rifles made in Jinsen when they were gearing up to produce the T 38. This one is like new and serial number 7. They were used for training workers while establishing the new production line in Jinsen(Inchon).
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Unread 03-11-2016, 01:26 PM   #8
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Thanks George and Don,
I included the close up of the red 9 to show the aged, dirty, flat red paint-which is likely original.
I have seen a number of Mauser Red 9s that have been re-painted with shiny red enamel, and show no age.
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Unread 03-13-2016, 03:52 PM   #9
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Their were 06 Lugers in 30 cal so this may have added to the bureaucratic confusion even though they were commercial Lugers.
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Unread 03-13-2016, 05:07 PM   #10
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Quote:
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Their were 06 Lugers in 30 cal so this may have added to the bureaucratic confusion even though they were commercial Lugers.
True; but by 1917 there here hundreds of thousands of 9mm lugers in the hands of the military, they were not marked with a "9". So I don't think that situation had anything to do with the "9"s on the artilleries. JMHO.
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Unread 04-15-2016, 08:35 AM   #11
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Here is an interesting variant in the font of the "red nine".

https://www.gunsamerica.com//9725544...LUGER.htm?wl=1

dju
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Unread 04-15-2016, 09:14 AM   #12
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Don, I agree that the field applied "Red 9s" were applied in error to LPO8s, This was done in confusion with the order to apply them to the first 60K 9mm brooms that were shipped to the troops with standard unmarked C96 grips in 1916. TH
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Unread 04-15-2016, 03:11 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidJayUden View Post
Here is an interesting variant in the font of the "red nine".

https://www.gunsamerica.com//9725544...LUGER.htm?wl=1

dju
A link to this listing appeared today, part of the G.A. "wish list" to which I'm subscribed. This one has just about the weirdest-shaped "9" I've seen pics of so far. The variations in shapes and sizes of this mark make it clear that the process was carried out with field-made branding irons. They're all similar, of course, but it would seem that in order to encounter two that are exactly alike, one would have to find two pistols marked by the same iron made by the unit that marked them!
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Unread 04-15-2016, 04:14 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ithacaartist View Post
A link to this listing appeared today, part of the G.A. "wish list" to which I'm subscribed. This one has just about the weirdest-shaped "9" I've seen pics of so far. The variations in shapes and sizes of this mark make it clear that the process was carried out with field-made branding irons. They're all similar, of course, but it would seem that in order to encounter two that are exactly alike, one would have to find two pistols marked by the same iron made by the unit that marked them!
I have an "orphan" pair of grips exactly like those on the auction pistol and have seen a pistol in France with exactly the same odd missing top 9s.
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Unread 04-15-2016, 04:41 PM   #15
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I was interested in this piece, until I called and found the grips were not numbered to the pistol.

Interesting nines for sure.
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Unread 04-16-2016, 03:27 PM   #16
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I have always agreed with the over enthusiastic beureucratic theory.

On fine day or days some well meaning ordnance guy got carried away with his enthusiasm.
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