Mauser 42 Code 1940

[ma deuce]

A local gun store has one. Finish is 95+, no signs of re-finish I can see. Excellent bore. All numbers matching that I could see with disassembly. However, the gun had brown plastic grips. That can't be correct for this gun, can it? Also, the serial number was three digits. Haven't seen that before. What do you think?

[Edward Tinker]

3 digit with or without the suffix?

I would have to look it up and see if any 1940 / 42 marked were in what range

The brown grips are generally thought of as either aftermarket or original Krieghoff - which means they could be real grips. Depends on what they look like?

pictures? cost?

[ma deuce]

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

3 digit with or without the suffix?

I would have to look it up and see if any 1940 / 42 marked were in what range

The brown grips are generally thought of as either aftermarket or original Krieghoff - which means they could be real grips. Depends on what they look like?

pictures? cost?

Without the suffix. Sorry, didn't take any pics. Yes, the grips do look like Krieghoffs. Were they put on Mausers sometimes?

[tharpo]

A one, two, three, or four digit serial number would all be correct. In 1940 there was a block of no suffix serial numbers, so that could be correct. There are collectors that believe that there were some 1940-42 Mauser Lugers issued with brown Krieghoff grips.

Tom

[Zorba]

Originally Posted by tharpo

In 1940 there was a block of no suffix serial numbers...

My 1940 42 is one also.

[alanint]

There is a legitimate variation with brown, plastic grips in this range. George Anderson or Jan Still will hopefully weigh in on this one.

[George Anderson]

Brown and or black grips appear as early as 1939. I have never run across a '39 with plastic grips but that's the year they were officially authorized in instances of shortage of scrap walnut from rifle stock production.

[guns3545]

Originally Posted by ma deuce

A local gun store has one. Finish is 95+, no signs of re-finish I can see. Excellent bore. All numbers matching that I could see with disassembly. However, the gun had brown plastic grips. That can't be correct for this gun, can it? Also, the serial number was three digits. Haven't seen that before. What do you think?

Paul,

Well, without pictures it is really difficult to comment specifically on your gun and its grip panels but I can provide some data. Only an inspection of the front and back of the grip panels will be definitive.

1. The 1940 42 P.08 with Brown plastic grips is a legitimate variation.

2. Most Brown grip panels have been reported in the y, d, and g through k blocks but this does not necessarily mean that the ns block could not contain brown grips.

3. It is a fact that when Krieghoff completed their first contract with the Luftwaffee in 1938/9 they shipped excess inventory of parts including the brown grip panels they were using over to Mauser.

4. It is also a fact that the Luftwaffee took about 34,000 P.08s out of the 137,000 or so produced by Mauser including about a third of the ns block according to Heereswaffenamt distribution reports. So there is a one in three chance that your gun was shipped to the Luftwaffee. The fact that it is a 95 percent gun would support this as most Army guns were beat up in combat. But, unlike the Navy, the Luftwaffee guns do not bear any distinctive markings so it is impossible to distinguish a Luftwaffee gun from Army which took about 100,000 guns in 1940.

But, Paul, the above is best case and there is always the alternative, however likely or unlikely that the grips are replacments or worst case outright fakes.

Hope this helps.

John

[mrerick]

Brown grips might be VoPo also. You need to post some pics so that we can be of more help.

Marc

[ma deuce]

Originally Posted by mrerick

Brown grips might be VoPo also. You need to post some pics so that we can be of more help.

Marc

Not Vopo grips, I think - no bullseyes. Thanks, everyone, for all your comments. If I decide to pursue the gun further (a big "if"), I'll insist on disassembling it and taking pics to post here. It's a big "if" because even if the gun is legit, I think it's waaaay overpriced at $3,995 with a mismatched mag. Consignment gun, and the usual nonsense about the FFL having no leeway. There are too many well-documented guns out there at that price to justify taking any chances. I do appreciate the education about the brown plastic Krieghoff grips - I was unaware there had been a shipment to Mauser.

[alanint]

You had not mentioned the price previously! That's about twice what this gun in the condition you describe is worth.

I would certainly pass on this myself.

[ma deuce]

Originally Posted by alanint

You had not mentioned the price previously! That's about twice what this gun in the condition you describe is worth.

I would certainly pass on this myself.

That was my immediate reaction when I saw it in the store, and FWIW, was confirmed by looking at prices on the Simpson's site, which usually runs high, anyway. I started this thread chiefly because I was interested in the brown plastic grip aspect. I was also interested in whether the 3-digit no-suffix serial number had some significance I was missing.

Re the consignment aspect, I have little patience with dealers that try to pass off gross overpricing by blaming the owner/consignor. I look at it as the dealer's responsibility either to talk the owner out of his pie-in-the-sky expectations down to something like reality, or not to accept the gun at all.

The gun and its price didn't pass my sniff test, and I appreciate hearing from all of you who are far more knowledgeable than I.

[jonnyc]

If you decide you do like it, you could always give the dealer your best offer, with an explanation. After a while of not selling you just might get a call.

[ma deuce]

Originally Posted by jonnyc

If you decide you do like it, you could always give the dealer your best offer, with an explanation. After a while of not selling you just might get a call.

Maybe. I've done that with this guy before, sometime successfully, sometimes not. As a matter of fact, I did that just yesterday with a S&W 27-2, another consignment gun, he had overpriced by $300-400. This is so far above the mark, I don't know that I even want to try.

[DavidJayUden]

You can always refer him to this thread if he seems to believe that his price is par. Or link him to Simpson, Ltd. He's unreasonable on his price but maybe he will reconsider once educated.
dju

[ma deuce]

I think one thing that goes on with consignment guns is when the consignor hears about the dealer's consignment percentage, they insist on stepping up the price to "make them whole", i.e., consignment fee to the buyer. I've had some dealer friends tell me they run into this all the time. The better dealers try to persuade the would-be consignor to get realistic or else their gun's going to languish in the case. Some I know turn consignors away under those circumstances. Others figure it's not costing them anything to put the gun in the case, and there's a fool born every minute.

[DavidJayUden]

The dealer gets an interesting gun to fill his gun case, while the consignor takes a chance of hooking up with that one impulsive boob who will overpay. Win-win.
Educating the dealer and leaving a sincere offer for the consignor to ponder is about all that one can do. At some point reality may set in.
dju

[rhuff]

One of the problems that I see in consigning a handgun is that it may well get handled a lot and not necessarily that carefully. Dry firing is another item that I wouldn't care for on my Luger. Once the dealer has it, you have no control over it's care. Perhaps I am overly careful with my weapons.

[alanint]

That reminds me of Old J Curtis Earl, (remember those tantalizing machinegun ads in Boys Life, Popular Science, Popular Mechanics, etc.)?

He became famous for taking in guns on consignment, for valuation, for repair, etc. then stealing valuable internals from them. This was especially true of classic 1921 Colt Tommy guns, etc. whose internals were rare and hard to find.

[DavidJayUden]

As I recall Mr. Earl got into a bunch of trouble over buried Thompsons found on his property. No?
dju