1920 comm. safety bar relief??? Unusual??

G.T. · 05-12-2004, 09:31 PM

Hi to all! I have come across a pretty substancial quantity of P.08 safety bars, DWM, Mauser, and some unnumbered ones taken almost exclusively from 1920 comm.'s...... the large majority of the unnumbered ones show evidence of an angle ground on the bottom front, where it generally rubs on the frame, and usually produces a notch... The military safety bars show none of this type of relief?? (other then wear) Can anyone tell me if what my eyes are seeing is true?? Did they relieve them, post WW1, to expidite assembly?? Can any of the members look and see if their 1920 DWM's show this relief?? It's interesting to me?? Maybe to the other members? In the picture, the three on the left are relieved, and the three on the right are not....Best to all, til....lat'r....GT

sambuscemi · 05-12-2004, 11:23 PM

Gerry: Do you have a 98 Mauser safety bar in the bunch? Let me know. SAM Buscemi

G.T. · 05-13-2004, 02:19 AM

Theres more!! I have inspected them closely with a loup... and here is what I've found... All Mauser P.08 safety bars are unaltered in any way... some show some wear, but even at it's worst, it is a very slight notching where it rubs on the frame (rear of the mag. well support)... As for the D.W.M. WW1 bars, most are unaltered, some few are beveled as outlined in the above post, and some show some wear as does the Mauser... most, a large percent, are as new, no alteriations, little wear... The un-numbered safety bars are a whole nother deal!! about 40% are beveled/relieved as outlined above, about 50% are notched relieved instead of beveled, at first I thought it was wear, but it is considerably deeper then any of the Mauser & D.W.M. WW1 safety bars, and it is very consistant from unit to unit... they were made this way!! ... and about 10% are as unaltered! Interesting note, none of the beveled bars showed ANY wear of any type!!.... How many of you thought this part was shot after you discovered the notch at the bottom??? I always thought they were a badly worn part! not so anymore... they are fine.. all worked well in the test frames I tried them in.... the little ledge on the bottom is, at best, a stop, not any type of a support!!
pretty interesting huh! til....lat'r....GT <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" />

Lugerdoc · 05-13-2004, 10:12 AM

GT, Thanks for the photo. Now I know where the cut is that you asked me about. In checking some of my safety bars, I did find a few Mausers with some filing in this area. I suspect that it was part of the fitting process to have the bar go all the way down, when in the off position. For those who don't know, the easiest way to tell one made by Mauser (serials centered) from a DWM (numbers to right of center). TH

G.T. · 05-13-2004, 10:24 AM

Hi Thomas! yes, it's pretty hard to describe over the phone! most, practically all, of the ones that had the angled relief were 1920's un-numbered bars... this group had a large number of notched ones also! It could very well be part of the fitting process as you suggest, and the crudely altered un-numbered ones could show a turn toward lower quality and standards in the post WW1 period... it's a theory anyway... I'll look more closely at this area as I get the opportunities! Best to you Tom, til....lat'r.....GT

Vlim · 05-15-2004, 09:32 AM

Hi GT,

I think it's the other way round. That they took more time and effort to make commercial bars fit nice and flush with the frame, hence the marks on the commercial bar. And that it wasn't considered to be very important on Military contract guns (okay as long as it functions properly).

Another possibility is a change in frame-design. Anyone compared the later Mauser frames with earlier DWM ones, to see if the frame was modified to have better working safetybars?

G.T. · 05-15-2004, 10:34 PM

Hi Gerben! You're probably correct... as I said earlier, the beveled ones seem to function fine, and there is absolutely no wear on them... some of the WW1 DWM ones were beveled ever so slight... this could have been a fitting situation also. It would be fun to compare the frames as you have mentioned... there are some very slight differences in the two manufacturers methods, as grips between the two are seldom interchangable.. not with out some fitting anyway! Best to you Gerben! til...lat'r.....GT

05-12-2004, 09:31 PM	#1
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,486 Thanks: 1,283 Thanked 3,583 Times in 989 Posts	1920 comm. safety bar relief??? Unusual?? Hi to all! I have come across a pretty substancial quantity of P.08 safety bars, DWM, Mauser, and some unnumbered ones taken almost exclusively from 1920 comm.'s...... the large majority of the unnumbered ones show evidence of an angle ground on the bottom front, where it generally rubs on the frame, and usually produces a notch... The military safety bars show none of this type of relief?? (other then wear) Can anyone tell me if what my eyes are seeing is true?? Did they relieve them, post WW1, to expidite assembly?? Can any of the members look and see if their 1920 DWM's show this relief?? It's interesting to me?? Maybe to the other members? In the picture, the three on the left are relieved, and the three on the right are not....Best to all, til....lat'r....GT

05-13-2004, 10:12 AM	#4
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	GT, Thanks for the photo. Now I know where the cut is that you asked me about. In checking some of my safety bars, I did find a few Mausers with some filing in this area. I suspect that it was part of the fitting process to have the bar go all the way down, when in the off position. For those who don't know, the easiest way to tell one made by Mauser (serials centered) from a DWM (numbers to right of center). TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

05-12-2004, 11:23 PM	#2
sambuscemi User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 192 Thanks: 0 Thanked 15 Times in 4 Posts	Gerry: Do you have a 98 Mauser safety bar in the bunch? Let me know. SAM Buscemi

05-13-2004, 02:19 AM	#3
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,486 Thanks: 1,283 Thanked 3,583 Times in 989 Posts	Theres more!! I have inspected them closely with a loup... and here is what I've found... All Mauser P.08 safety bars are unaltered in any way... some show some wear, but even at it's worst, it is a very slight notching where it rubs on the frame (rear of the mag. well support)... As for the D.W.M. WW1 bars, most are unaltered, some few are beveled as outlined in the above post, and some show some wear as does the Mauser... most, a large percent, are as new, no alteriations, little wear... The un-numbered safety bars are a whole nother deal!! about 40% are beveled/relieved as outlined above, about 50% are notched relieved instead of beveled, at first I thought it was wear, but it is considerably deeper then any of the Mauser & D.W.M. WW1 safety bars, and it is very consistant from unit to unit... they were made this way!! ... and about 10% are as unaltered! Interesting note, none of the beveled bars showed ANY wear of any type!!.... How many of you thought this part was shot after you discovered the notch at the bottom??? I always thought they were a badly worn part! not so anymore... they are fine.. all worked well in the test frames I tried them in.... the little ledge on the bottom is, at best, a stop, not any type of a support!! pretty interesting huh! til....lat'r....GT <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" />

05-13-2004, 10:24 AM	#5
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,486 Thanks: 1,283 Thanked 3,583 Times in 989 Posts	Hi Thomas! yes, it's pretty hard to describe over the phone! most, practically all, of the ones that had the angled relief were 1920's un-numbered bars... this group had a large number of notched ones also! It could very well be part of the fitting process as you suggest, and the crudely altered un-numbered ones could show a turn toward lower quality and standards in the post WW1 period... it's a theory anyway... I'll look more closely at this area as I get the opportunities! Best to you Tom, til....lat'r.....GT

05-15-2004, 09:32 AM	#6
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,034 Thanks: 1,020 Thanked 3,882 Times in 1,186 Posts	Hi GT, I think it's the other way round. That they took more time and effort to make commercial bars fit nice and flush with the frame, hence the marks on the commercial bar. And that it wasn't considered to be very important on Military contract guns (okay as long as it functions properly). Another possibility is a change in frame-design. Anyone compared the later Mauser frames with earlier DWM ones, to see if the frame was modified to have better working safetybars?

05-15-2004, 10:34 PM	#7
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,486 Thanks: 1,283 Thanked 3,583 Times in 989 Posts	Hi Gerben! You're probably correct... as I said earlier, the beveled ones seem to function fine, and there is absolutely no wear on them... some of the WW1 DWM ones were beveled ever so slight... this could have been a fitting situation also. It would be fun to compare the frames as you have mentioned... there are some very slight differences in the two manufacturers methods, as grips between the two are seldom interchangable.. not with out some fitting anyway! Best to you Gerben! til...lat'r.....GT