Velocity of PRVI 7,63 Mauser & DWM 403

alvin · 11-26-2009, 10:06 AM

Date: 11/26/2009
Temperature: 44°F
Device: ProChrono Digital PAL Chronograph (claimed 1% accuracy)
Distance: 20 feet from muzzle
Weapon: 1914 7,63 Mauser 140m/m barrel

Ammo 1 -- PRVI 7,63 Mauser "Blue Box", 10 rounds, unit in feet/sec

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/7.63_Mauser.html

(p1) 1308
(p2) 1346 (high)
(p3) 1336
(p4) 1330
(p5) 1308
(p6) 1337
(p7) 1333
(p8) 1313
(p9) 1297 (low)
(p10) 1320

Average: 1322 ft/s

Ammo 2 -- DWM K 403, not sure about the year, probably made in 1930s.

http://www.checkpointcharlies.com/sh...productid=2157

(d1) 1444
(d2) 1409 (low)
(d3) 1427
(d4) 1446
(d5) 1438
(d6) 1439
(d7) 1439
(d8) 1474 (high)
(d9) 1460
(d10) 1461

Average: 1443 ft/s

====

Another one tested was Winchester "White Box" 9m/m 115gr FMJ, a popular ammo used by many collectors in Parabellum and Red 9 pistols. Fired from a Browning Double Mode (BDM) 9m/m pistol. Also fired 10 rounds:

(w1) 1079 (low)
(w2) 1137
(w3) 1152
(w4) 1113
(w5) 1121
(w6) 1168 (high)
(w7) 1120
(w8) 1127
(w9) 1108
(w10) 1108

Average: 1123 ft/s

sheepherder · 11-26-2009, 10:20 AM

Very interesting!!! Thank you for posting!!!

How do you calibrate this chronograph??? (How do you "zero" it???)

alvin · 11-26-2009, 10:50 AM

No caliberation needed. When power is on, it displays "0". Never used an older model, probably because this new one being "digital" (a hi-tech term?), the effort on my side is minimum. The device can count up to 99 shots, and after each 10-shot group, I turned the power off and then turned it on so it can "forget" the previous group.

Another thing is regarding difference of hammer hitting force of prewar and 1930. As we've already known, 1930's main spring is stronger than previous variations, also 1930 has a longer firing pin spring than previous ones to offset the stronger main spring. Why did Mauser bother making this change? Stronger main spring can protect bolt stop better, but harder hammer hit must be offset so the firing pin won't pierce the primer. But 1930's hammer hitting force is still bigger than prewar.

worldoftone · 11-26-2009, 11:14 AM

Well, I was always told that the PRVI wasn't quite as hot as the old surplus. That's good! I use it exclusively in my broom.

- WOT

sheepherder · 11-26-2009, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin

No caliberation needed.

I wondered, because Cabela's description says -

The ProChrono PAL Chronograph registers velocities from 56 to 7,000 fps.

http://www.cabelas.com/p-0032949.shtml

Since it won't register anything up to 56fps...how does it know where to start???

alvin · 11-26-2009, 01:21 PM

The User Manual says 21 - 7000 fps. It also explained a little bit how it works: there are two windows on the top of the device, around 1 foot away. The device detects the object flying over the windows (space as defined by two "antennas"), and divided by time duration. So, in my imagination, the internal clock can measure duration from 143 micro-seconds (1/7000) to 0.05 seconds (1/21).

Just use 21 fps as an example above. 56 fps is similarly reasoned. Different value though.

Why didn't they make a clock which can measure larger duration range, for example, 1 second, so this device could detect 1 fps speed..... I don't know. Probably because of cost? They can only sell for so much. At the low speed end, the manual claims it can meaure speed of airsoft paintballs, 21 fps or 56 fps is probably good enough for the purpose.

Vlim · 11-26-2009, 02:06 PM

Nice work.

I'm surprised that the DWM 1930s stuff performed well and was quite spiffy as well.
Very interesting.

alvin · 11-26-2009, 02:29 PM

DWM is high quality ammo. For comparison, I had the Russian made 7,62 SKS ammo (newly made Wolf) stored in the same place, and 10% misfired because of humidity.

I told another gun lover acquiring this Mauser for shooting:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=144801980

He did it and he also acquired a single box of DWM 403 from CheckpointCharlies.com because he needed the DWM clips. Reported that two rounds (out of 20) in the box had cracked cartridge cases.

Probably I was super lucky. None of those in mine were cracked, and those 10 round that I tried worked well. DWM is obviously more strong than PRVI. It's louder.

kidvett · 11-26-2009, 05:53 PM

Alvin,

Very interesting work & results. What's the bullet weight on the DWM 403 ??

Marc

saab-bob · 11-26-2009, 07:38 PM

Alvin
Thanks so much for the info.

Interesting how less powerfull the Winchester ammo is.

Do you have any of the Fiocchi 30 Mauser to test?

I have been told it is a little more powerfull then the Prvi 30 Mauser.

www.midwayusa.com carries it.

That would cover all the currently available 30 Mauser ammo I know of.

Bob

alvin · 11-26-2009, 07:40 PM

I hope I know DWM's bullet weight. It's not marked on the box. Here is the box that I received from Charlie back 1-2 years ago. Still have 10 rounds left. I don't reload at home but my mother has a postal weight scale.... I will borrow it next time when I visit her.

Will try Italian ammo next time. I thought I still had one box left but I could not find it. Also had FN 7,63 but I have only one box and don't want to shoot them out. Romanian, Chinese, etc are for Tokarev, not for Mauser. I need to find an appropriate gun to test. Sold one CZ-52 for $179 last year and I found I could not buy it back at that price anymore.

sheepherder · 11-26-2009, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin

Romanian, Chinese, etc are for Tokarev, not for Mauser. I need to find an appropriate gun to test.

That site you linked has Romanian TT 33 for $220...

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/R...25_Pistol.html

alvin · 11-26-2009, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by postino

That site you linked has Romanian TT 33 for $220...

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/R...25_Pistol.html

Since people sent me private message teaching me the meaning of "expansive" in Webster's English, I won't comment on that price. The bigger problem is FFL, I must wait that stupid FFL to take any action. Thanks for the info though.

Guys, shoot a few original guns. There are too many of them on the market, you can help reduce the number and have some fun. Also, if pay attention, can find something in Mauser that no book addresses. Best part -- if acquiring price is right, it won't cost much more than buying a poor one and trying to make it work. The previous $1300 one on GB was an example.

sheepherder · 11-26-2009, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin

Since people sent me private message teaching me the meaning of "expansive" in Webster's English, I won't comment on that price...

I thought it was quite reasonable...If it was a shop around here, I'd buy one...

alvin · 11-27-2009, 06:17 AM

A side small story.

One of my childhood friend's father was a deputy battalion commander of communist army in 1950s. The old man told us owning a Tokarev was "status of rank" by then. He's not qualified and had to keep carring a C96 for a long time. The old man's desire to own a Tokarev was not unlike my unrealistic desire to wear a Patek or drive a Benz today.

Starting from when.... Sir Tokarev (at least the clones) lost that status and became a symbol of low quality and cheap serving mainly in learning gunsmithing?

The only explaination is volume.

11-26-2009, 10:06 AM	#1
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Velocity of PRVI 7,63 Mauser & DWM 403 Date: 11/26/2009 Temperature: 44°F Device: ProChrono Digital PAL Chronograph (claimed 1% accuracy) Distance: 20 feet from muzzle Weapon: 1914 7,63 Mauser 140m/m barrel Ammo 1 -- PRVI 7,63 Mauser "Blue Box", 10 rounds, unit in feet/sec http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/7.63_Mauser.html (p1) 1308 (p2) 1346 (high) (p3) 1336 (p4) 1330 (p5) 1308 (p6) 1337 (p7) 1333 (p8) 1313 (p9) 1297 (low) (p10) 1320 Average: 1322 ft/s Ammo 2 -- DWM K 403, not sure about the year, probably made in 1930s. http://www.checkpointcharlies.com/sh...productid=2157 (d1) 1444 (d2) 1409 (low) (d3) 1427 (d4) 1446 (d5) 1438 (d6) 1439 (d7) 1439 (d8) 1474 (high) (d9) 1460 (d10) 1461 Average: 1443 ft/s ==== Another one tested was Winchester "White Box" 9m/m 115gr FMJ, a popular ammo used by many collectors in Parabellum and Red 9 pistols. Fired from a Browning Double Mode (BDM) 9m/m pistol. Also fired 10 rounds: (w1) 1079 (low) (w2) 1137 (w3) 1152 (w4) 1113 (w5) 1121 (w6) 1168 (high) (w7) 1120 (w8) 1127 (w9) 1108 (w10) 1108 Average: 1123 ft/s

11-26-2009, 10:50 AM	#3
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	No caliberation needed. When power is on, it displays "0". Never used an older model, probably because this new one being "digital" (a hi-tech term?), the effort on my side is minimum. The device can count up to 99 shots, and after each 10-shot group, I turned the power off and then turned it on so it can "forget" the previous group. Another thing is regarding difference of hammer hitting force of prewar and 1930. As we've already known, 1930's main spring is stronger than previous variations, also 1930 has a longer firing pin spring than previous ones to offset the stronger main spring. Why did Mauser bother making this change? Stronger main spring can protect bolt stop better, but harder hammer hit must be offset so the firing pin won't pierce the primer. But 1930's hammer hitting force is still bigger than prewar. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by alvin; 11-26-2009 at 10:57 AM. Reason: Pix added

11-26-2009, 07:38 PM	#10
saab-bob User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 459 Thanks: 774 Thanked 143 Times in 87 Posts	Alvin Thanks so much for the info. Interesting how less powerfull the Winchester ammo is. Do you have any of the Fiocchi 30 Mauser to test? I have been told it is a little more powerfull then the Prvi 30 Mauser. www.midwayusa.com carries it. That would cover all the currently available 30 Mauser ammo I know of. Bob __________________ "I think,therefore I own guns"

11-26-2009, 07:40 PM	#11
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	I hope I know DWM's bullet weight. It's not marked on the box. Here is the box that I received from Charlie back 1-2 years ago. Still have 10 rounds left. I don't reload at home but my mother has a postal weight scale.... I will borrow it next time when I visit her. Will try Italian ammo next time. I thought I still had one box left but I could not find it. Also had FN 7,63 but I have only one box and don't want to shoot them out. Romanian, Chinese, etc are for Tokarev, not for Mauser. I need to find an appropriate gun to test. Sold one CZ-52 for $179 last year and I found I could not buy it back at that price anymore. Attached Thumbnails

11-26-2009, 10:20 AM	#2
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,181 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,438 Times in 2,327 Posts	Very interesting!!! Thank you for posting!!! How do you calibrate this chronograph??? (How do you "zero" it???)

11-26-2009, 11:14 AM	#4
worldoftone User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 81 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Well, I was always told that the PRVI wasn't quite as hot as the old surplus. That's good! I use it exclusively in my broom. - WOT

11-26-2009, 01:21 PM	#6
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	The User Manual says 21 - 7000 fps. It also explained a little bit how it works: there are two windows on the top of the device, around 1 foot away. The device detects the object flying over the windows (space as defined by two "antennas"), and divided by time duration. So, in my imagination, the internal clock can measure duration from 143 micro-seconds (1/7000) to 0.05 seconds (1/21). Just use 21 fps as an example above. 56 fps is similarly reasoned. Different value though. Why didn't they make a clock which can measure larger duration range, for example, 1 second, so this device could detect 1 fps speed..... I don't know. Probably because of cost? They can only sell for so much. At the low speed end, the manual claims it can meaure speed of airsoft paintballs, 21 fps or 56 fps is probably good enough for the purpose.

11-26-2009, 02:06 PM	#7
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,032 Thanks: 1,018 Thanked 3,873 Times in 1,184 Posts	Nice work. I'm surprised that the DWM 1930s stuff performed well and was quite spiffy as well. Very interesting.

11-26-2009, 02:29 PM	#8
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	DWM is high quality ammo. For comparison, I had the Russian made 7,62 SKS ammo (newly made Wolf) stored in the same place, and 10% misfired because of humidity. I told another gun lover acquiring this Mauser for shooting: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=144801980 He did it and he also acquired a single box of DWM 403 from CheckpointCharlies.com because he needed the DWM clips. Reported that two rounds (out of 20) in the box had cracked cartridge cases. Probably I was super lucky. None of those in mine were cracked, and those 10 round that I tried worked well. DWM is obviously more strong than PRVI. It's louder.

11-26-2009, 05:53 PM	#9
kidvett User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Alvin, Very interesting work & results. What's the bullet weight on the DWM 403 ?? Marc

11-27-2009, 06:17 AM	#15
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	A side small story. One of my childhood friend's father was a deputy battalion commander of communist army in 1950s. The old man told us owning a Tokarev was "status of rank" by then. He's not qualified and had to keep carring a C96 for a long time. The old man's desire to own a Tokarev was not unlike my unrealistic desire to wear a Patek or drive a Benz today. Starting from when.... Sir Tokarev (at least the clones) lost that status and became a symbol of low quality and cheap serving mainly in learning gunsmithing? The only explaination is volume.