Why is Glock so Hot????

[Ron Smith]

Agree! I would prefer to carry my old Customized Remington-Rand 1911A1, but in this age of litigation I try to avoid single actions.

[kmichaels90]

If I ever get around to getting my CCW, which I should my dad, grandfather, and 2 uncles have theirs. I would prefer to carry my Sig Sauer 1911. I'd carry the luger but at this time I know of no available concealment holsters, and I just dont yet trust its reliability with the minor extraction problem. That problem cured (hopefully as soon as my extractor spring arrives in the mail) well then yeah I'd carry it. If I win the lottery maybe a custom .45cal. baby luger in an ankle holster.

[kmichaels90]

Originally Posted by lugersrkewl

deagle 44 mag for cc for me . just always wear a coat no I change my mind a .380 highpoint with one of these tactical sights.

nice lol that birdman fella used to have a website where it showed that and a DIY .50BMG kit.

[lugersrkewl]

btw +1 for glocks

[jared427]

Cop shoots him self in foot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1_EoRZOVes
This why I want a Glock!

[mlmahon]

Another nominee for the Darwin award!

[alanint]

"I'm the only one in this room professional enough...."


Most LE officers carry Glocks because they have to, not because they want to.

[Curly1]

There is that, the bean counters always have the say in the end.

[kmichaels90]

A friend of mine is a local sheriffs deputy. They buy there own sidearm if you wanna carry a jennings .22 you can or u can carry a 14" .500 S&W as long as you can qualify with it. He carries an old S&W .357 snubby not sure what model. The local PD carries glocks in .40cal. I was told they were gonna go Sig but glock was the cheapest. Because you really wanna bet your life on the cheapest gun your department could buy? Not me.

[Jack Lawman]

Inevitably, most “Glock” threads morph into “Cops and Glocks” threads. The following post is only for those readers who have not galvanized their opinion of the Glock. I would hate to be accused of trying to win hearts and minds.

The Glock is the choice of most LE agencies because it is a neat fit with the average skill level of the average police officer. Of approximately 883,600 (2008) officers in the US, there are some really bad ones, some really good ones, and a lot of average ones. This discussion centers around the vast majority of “average” officers.

1. The Glock has three passive safeties: Trigger, firing pin, and drop. In the heat of a gunfight, many officers carrying firearms with a manual safety will draw on a threat, mash on a locked trigger, realize they need to flip off the safety, flip off the safety, then fire. This 1 – 2 second delay has cost lives. A Glock is drawn and fired… period. Is it a training issue? Certainly. Would it be “safer” if all police carried manual safety arms and trained the safety flip into their subconscious? Absolutely. That said, I have yet to see any body of citizenry clamor to pay higher taxes for better guns and triple range, ammo, and manpower expenses. Even so, the bad cops will carry their pistols with the safety off to “get the edge.”

2. I submit that 99.9% of all Glock accidental discharges are caused by user error. The trigger is pulled on a loaded chamber, period. The trigger must be pulled on a Glock in order to disassemble. It is drilled over and over to never pull the trigger on a loaded firearm if you don’t intend to shoot. People forget, sometimes with fatal consequences. The only true accidental discharge of a Glock (as opposed to negligent discharge) I have heard of is an officer was holstering his Glock at the range and a small plastic ball dangling from the drawstring of his raid jacket found its way inside the trigger guard of his pistol. When he holstered, the object depressed the trigger safety and the pistol discharged (minor injury IIRC).

3. The majority of gunfights take place between contact distance and 7 yards. Urban police gunfights usually take place between 0 and 10 feet. At these distances, I would gladly go up against any supertuned .45 with a working 9mm Bryco, Jennings, Kel-Tec, etc IF I get a 1 second headstart on the draw. At these distances, the inherent accuracy of the firearm just isn’t an issue. Though not as accurate as a match pistol, the Glock is as accurate as most any other service pistol.

Think of police officers as home improvement contractors. Some can do excellent work, but they make a mess when they paint. Or car mechanics, some can fix your car very well, but they have trouble with the electronics. Some otherwise EXCELLENT officers just aren’t gun guys. It’s as simple as that. Problem is that when you use your gun properly, you’re a hero. When you mess up, you’re a zero. Both of these guys make the paper. The guy who doesn’t make the paper is the guy who carries his gun for 20+ years and is skillful enough to never have an incident. That’s most of us.

Jack
(Never in a gunfight)

[Olle]

Originally Posted by alanint

Glocks are the Budweiser beer for all those new CCW carry holders and women buying their first gun and anybody else who thinks the gun will do all the thinking for them so they don't have to train.

I have talked to many of these "gun newbies", and they all claim that "I have heard that Glock is the safest gun in the world, so it was the obvious choice". I'm of the opposite opinion: Glock is a very unsafe pistol for those who are not used to guns. I also find them more difficult to shoot than traditional SA or SA/DA pistols, mostly due to the horrible triggers. Also, calibrator mentioned that a loaded magazine can weigh as much as the gun itself, which is great if you want a lightweight gun, but the balance and recoil will change as you empty the mag so it's not nearly as great for controlled shooting. This was very obvious in my G32, those last rounds were actually quite punishing.

Granted, many people have shown fantastic results with Glocks, but it's not a pistol you just pick up and shoot well right off the bat. Their safety is no safety at all, it's just an arrangement that prevents the gun from discharging unless you pull the trigger. "Safest trigger in the world": Maybe. "Safest gun in the world": Definitely not.

I bought my Glocks just to find out what the hype is all about, and they were both sold about 2 months after the purchase as I found them inferior in any way to my SIGs. There was no safety, no cocking indicator, no loaded chamber indicator (which I believe they come with now), they felt like bricks in my hand and the triggers felt worse than in my son's airsofts. I try my best not to drop my guns from 10-story buildings and if I do, I probably won't find it in time to use it anyway, so I'll stick with SIG Sauer.

And maybe most importantly: Glocks look like water pistols. You definitely don't want that.

[padredan]

outstanding post. Like i said when i started this thread, a glock is utility and a pretty good pistol and you sure have no problem selling one. and police do like them and one reason maybe price.

[kmichaels90]

I always here this 21 feet rule. In all honesty at 30 feet I can put 8 shots into one ragged hole with my sig 1911, and can probably do the same with the luger. Heck at that distance I'd feel safe with my davis .38 derringer. Supposing I was faster and calmer than my opponent.

[Olle]

I don't carry a gun at work like you do and I'm definitely not as good at handling and shooting guns as I would like to be, but I would still like to comment on your post:

Originally Posted by Jack Lawman

1. The Glock has three passive safeties: Trigger, firing pin, and drop. In the heat of a gunfight, many officers carrying firearms with a manual safety will draw on a threat, mash on a locked trigger, realize they need to flip off the safety, flip off the safety, then fire. This 1 – 2 second delay has cost lives. A Glock is drawn and fired… period. Is it a training issue? Certainly. Would it be “safer” if all police carried manual safety arms and trained the safety flip into their subconscious? Absolutely. That saud, I have yet to see any body of citizenry clamor to pay higher taxes for better guns and triple range, ammo, and manpower expenses. Even so, the bad cops will carry their pistols with the safety off to “get the edge.”

What you're comparing here is a Glock with a loaded chamber and a SA/DA pistol with loaded chamber and the safety on, and I don't think this is a fair comparison. If you look at the actual condition of the weapon, you should compare with a SA/DA with a loaded chamber, safety off and the hammer lowered. In this scenario I'd say that the SA/DA has an edge safetywise, as the trigger pull is heavier than on a Glock in the same condition (much like a revolver). Also, it can be deployed just as quickly as the Glock, without fumbling for the safety.

Originally Posted by Jack Lawman

2. I submit that 99.9% of all Glock accidental discharges are caused by user error. The trigger is pulled on a loaded chamber, period. The trigger must be pulled on a Glock in order to disassemble. It is drilled over and over to never pull the trigger on a loaded firearm if you don’t intend to shoot. People forget, sometimes with fatal consequences. The only true accidental discharge of a Glock (as opposed to negligent discharge) I have heard of is an officer was holstering his Glock at the range and a small plastic ball dangling from the drawstring of his raid jacket found its way inside the trigger guard of his pistol. When he holstered, the object depressed the trigger safety and the pistol discharged (minor injury IIRC).

I agree that the vast majority of accidents are due to operator error, and I'd also say that it's way easier to make a mistake with the Glock. The only thing that indicates that the gun is ready to fire is the position of the trigger, and it's easy to make a mistake if you don't know what you're looking at. It is definitely a training and awareness issue, but it's still easier to make a mistake with a Glock than with a gun that has more visible "warning features". This is my major gripe with "the safest gun in the world": How can the average Joe Blow tell the difference between an unloaded gun, and one that is ready to fire? I'd say that most people can't, unless they are well trained on Glocks in particular. The sad truth is that the majority of private gun owners don't take the time to learn all the particulars of their guns, and that's why many accidents happen. A first time gun owner lured into buying a Glock is an accident waiting to happen.

Originally Posted by Jack Lawman

3. The majority of gunfights take place between contact distance and 7 yards. Urban police gunfights usually take place between 0 and 10 feet. At these distances, I would gladly go up against any supertuned .45 with a working 9mm Bryco, Jennings, Kel-Tec, etc IF I get a 1 second headstart on the draw. At these distances, the inherent accuracy of the firearm just isn’t an issue. Though not as accurate as a match pistol, the Glock is as accurate as most any other service pistol.

I agree 100%. In this scenario, you don't need a bullseye pistol, you need one that goes bang every time you pull the trigger.

[Jack Lawman]

Originally Posted by Olle

What you're comparing here is a Glock with a loaded chamber and a SA/DA pistol with loaded chamber and the safety on, and I don't think this is a fair comparison.

Not comparing Glock's "safeaction" to either double action (DA) or single action (SA). It's a hybrid. It's like a SA because each and every trigger pull is the same (first to last). It's like a DA because although the striker is "preloaded", you still need to move it back further with the trigger pull. The best comparison would be to a double only pistol such as S&W 5946 or the NYPD version of the Sig P226 (double only). Difference is longer trigger pull and exposed hammer moving in your sight picture. Neither of those double onlys has an external safety. Individual officers vary, but most shoot and like the Glock better. Brass wants consistent trigger pull, and you can't argue with brass... even if you win, you lose.

Originally Posted by Olle

How can the average Joe Blow tell the difference between an unloaded gun, and one that is ready to fire? I'd say that most people can't, unless they are well trained on Glocks in particular.

I wasn't referencing average citizens or new shooters. My post was specific to LEO's and supposed at least minimal regular training.

Jack

[lugersrkewl]

yeh glocks suck , $800 + 1911 frame or revolver is the only way to go. dont take the bait jack lawman

[kmichaels90]

Sig or Kimber 1911's the only way to go. If your wondering why I bought the $1000 sig and not the $1400 kimber? Two reasons no accessory rail or night sights on the kimber.

[alvin]

Revolver has revolver's headache. I had a Ruger Security Six in the past, its action is tight, timing is perfect, except sometimes the trigger could stuck and the cylinder did not turn..... All Gun & Ammo magazine articles that I read saying "revolver is reliable, almost nothing can go wrong with it. If something goes wrong, pull the trigger again"..... yeah, I can pull the trigger again, but if cylinder does not turn, it's still void

Surprisingly, Security Six is super complex inside. I disassambled it trying to find what's wrong, and I could not put it back.

[padredan]

the security six is a bit over complex, i will bite, what will you take for it in the box with all it's parts? If you didn't get too frustrated and give them a fling. i would do that a bit in my youth, got over it. but i do need a set of better grips for my 1930 c96, if you happen to have some extras for sale. pm me if you do thanks.

[Ron Smith]

"Surprisingly, Security Six is super complex inside. I disassembled it trying to find what's wrong, and I could not put it back."

Alvin

Actually the Security Six has the least complicated internals of any revolver. It was designed for field stripping by military personnel.

It sounds like you had the hand and trigger out of sync. Easy to do if you don't hold your tongue right.

Find an assembly manual and follow the instructions. You will be surprised at how simple it is, once you figure it out.

I've owned several variations of the Speed Six and Security Six. It is one of the best revolvers ever built and extremely reliable. I presently own a customized 6" stainless. It is my, "always take along in case I need to shoot something" gun. I always grab it first if I want a good accurate utility gun with me in the woods.