luger came in but....

whos2kno · 09-12-2005, 09:26 PM

over all nice looking weapon butt.....
after reading the paperwork im not sure it's original. the paperwork is dated 25 April 1945 but if you read down to #1 #2 you will read
Sec.VI, Cir 155,WD, 28 May 1945

does 28 May 1945 mean the year?

a little help needed please

wlyon · 09-12-2005, 10:05 PM

I'm not an expert on capture papers but I have 2 sets and the date in the paper is prior to the issue date. Yes that is a date,or at least mine is.I have seen several sets of capture papers but never one with the quality of paper in yours .generally the paper is brown and quite worn. I can"t say yours are not correct but I would look for another opinion. Bill

Navy · 09-12-2005, 10:16 PM

I surmise you have a bogus piece of paper. The War Department did not engage in ex post facto stuff.

Tom A

lugerholsterrepair · 09-12-2005, 10:29 PM

I have one set of capture papers and it is folded many times, very brown and fragile paper. Paper that is 60 years old is quite evident. Delicate, easy to tear. From the looks of the paper you show it is recent, regardless of the date. I wouldn't put any stock in the papers...Jerry Burney

whos2kno · 09-12-2005, 10:37 PM

well the pic of the paperwork is not the best,here is the back of the paperwork.

whos2kno · 09-12-2005, 10:40 PM

im calling tomorrow and see how there return is.

minigun · 09-12-2005, 11:38 PM

What about the gun. Can you display pics of it for us? Thanks

Balder · 09-13-2005, 01:27 PM

Wouldn't somebody forging a piece of paper like this make sure that the dates made sense? Of course, that could work both ways, but it would take a pretty cold-blooded forger to do something like what we see on that piece of paper. I have no experience with bring-back papers, but I'd be willing to at least put a pint of beer that it is the real deal.

Balder

John Sabato · 09-13-2005, 01:45 PM

There is every possibility that the last digit of the typewritten date at the top is a typographical error... and should have been 1946 during the occupation, so This paper COULD be genuine...because company clerks HAVE been known to make mistakes..., but the only way to find out would be forensic testing and that certainly wouldn't be worth the expense... if it is an authentic un-messed-with Luger... just count your lucky stars that you own it...

If you had to pay a whole lot more than the gun is worth to get the papers, then you might have to negotiate with the seller about a price reduction or return.

Herb · 09-13-2005, 02:13 PM

I don't think this paper is for real, but I'm not a WWII vet. Every abbreviation I've seen of an officers rank is different from that which you see in the newspapers or in the movies. The correct abbreviation for First Leiutenant is 1Lt, not 1st Lt as shown on the paper. The longer abbreviations are so that non military people can relate to them easier but then the abbreviated titles may have changed after the war, I don't know.

George Anderson · 09-13-2005, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Herb
...Every abbreviation I've seen of an officers rank is different from that which you see in the newspapers or in the movies. The correct abbreviation for First Leiutenant is 1Lt, not 1st Lt as shown on the paper. The longer abbreviations are so that non military people can relate to them easier but then the abbreviated titles may have changed after the war, I don't know.

Herb, abbreviations during WWII were different than they are today. When I was a kid in the '50s growing up my dad was a "Lt.Col" then later a "Col". When I was in the Army in the 70's those ranks were LTC and COL.

The paper, however, does appear to be a fake. Blanks were being sold in Tulsa several years ago.

whos2kno · 09-13-2005, 09:10 PM

i talked to the people today and they gave me a three hunderd dollar credit so ove all i got it for 700.00.
im happy now

thanks for your guys imput

Russ · 09-13-2005, 09:23 PM

Hey thats good.
Russ the sceptic LOL

thegundude · 09-13-2005, 09:39 PM

Now that's what I like to hear.... Fair is fair and that was more than fair.

Now you can say that the papers are a neat novelty, if nothing else...

c3006 · 09-14-2005, 08:34 PM

I would love to see pics of the pistol that came with the papers if you get the chance.

whos2kno · 09-14-2005, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by c3006
I would love to see pics of the pistol that came with the papers if you get the chance.

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temnum=6866107

c3006 · 09-14-2005, 10:00 PM

Thanks

byf42 · 09-21-2005, 10:38 PM

I purchased a luger about 2 years ago which had very different looking capture papers than the one above. Also included was the customs declaration form. I bought this directly from the estate. About a year ago I purchased a '38 s/42 with papers identical to the one above. I did a little research and discovered that they were bogus papers. I received a refund from the seller and about 6 months ago saw another '38 s/42 with capture papers that had the same Lieutenant's name on the bottom, but from a different unit. This gun was at a different table, different vendor. I definitely take any paperwork with a grain of salt now.

c3006 · 09-22-2005, 05:31 AM

Its a shame that some people have no conscience about tampering with history.

Edward Tinker · 09-22-2005, 01:25 PM

I love the capture papers, makes it part of history, but don't let it make the "value" go higher (unless you are SURE they are real and then I'd add $50 tops).

ed

09-12-2005, 10:29 PM	#4
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	I have one set of capture papers and it is folded many times, very brown and fragile paper. Paper that is 60 years old is quite evident. Delicate, easy to tear. From the looks of the paper you show it is recent, regardless of the date. I wouldn't put any stock in the papers...Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

09-12-2005, 10:37 PM	#5
whos2kno User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: marietta ga Posts: 25 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	well the pic of the paperwork is not the best,here is the back of the paperwork. Attached Thumbnails

09-13-2005, 01:45 PM	#9
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	There is every possibility that the last digit of the typewritten date at the top is a typographical error... and should have been 1946 during the occupation, so This paper COULD be genuine...because company clerks HAVE been known to make mistakes..., but the only way to find out would be forensic testing and that certainly wouldn't be worth the expense... if it is an authentic un-messed-with Luger... just count your lucky stars that you own it... If you had to pay a whole lot more than the gun is worth to get the papers, then you might have to negotiate with the seller about a price reduction or return. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-13-2005, 02:13 PM	#10
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I don't think this paper is for real, but I'm not a WWII vet. Every abbreviation I've seen of an officers rank is different from that which you see in the newspapers or in the movies. The correct abbreviation for First Leiutenant is 1Lt, not 1st Lt as shown on the paper. The longer abbreviations are so that non military people can relate to them easier but then the abbreviated titles may have changed after the war, I don't know. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

09-13-2005, 09:23 PM	#13
Russ User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Reading, PA. Posts: 628 Thanks: 2 Thanked 38 Times in 10 Posts	Hey thats good. Russ the sceptic LOL __________________ Livin the dream!!!!!!!!!!!

09-12-2005, 09:26 PM	#1
whos2kno User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: marietta ga Posts: 25 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	luger came in but.... over all nice looking weapon butt..... after reading the paperwork im not sure it's original. the paperwork is dated 25 April 1945 but if you read down to #1 #2 you will read Sec.VI, Cir 155,WD, 28 May 1945 does 28 May 1945 mean the year? a little help needed please

09-12-2005, 10:05 PM	#2
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,614 Thanks: 3,140 Thanked 2,519 Times in 939 Posts	I'm not an expert on capture papers but I have 2 sets and the date in the paper is prior to the issue date. Yes that is a date,or at least mine is.I have seen several sets of capture papers but never one with the quality of paper in yours .generally the paper is brown and quite worn. I can"t say yours are not correct but I would look for another opinion. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

09-12-2005, 10:16 PM	#3
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	I surmise you have a bogus piece of paper. The War Department did not engage in ex post facto stuff. Tom A

09-12-2005, 10:40 PM	#6
whos2kno User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: marietta ga Posts: 25 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	im calling tomorrow and see how there return is.

09-12-2005, 11:38 PM	#7
minigun User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 424 Thanks: 15 Thanked 19 Times in 14 Posts	What about the gun. Can you display pics of it for us? Thanks

09-13-2005, 01:27 PM	#8
Balder User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Norway Posts: 288 Thanks: 20 Thanked 34 Times in 19 Posts	Wouldn't somebody forging a piece of paper like this make sure that the dates made sense? Of course, that could work both ways, but it would take a pretty cold-blooded forger to do something like what we see on that piece of paper. I have no experience with bring-back papers, but I'd be willing to at least put a pint of beer that it is the real deal. Balder

09-13-2005, 09:10 PM	#12
whos2kno User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: marietta ga Posts: 25 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	i talked to the people today and they gave me a three hunderd dollar credit so ove all i got it for 700.00. im happy now thanks for your guys imput

09-13-2005, 09:39 PM	#14
thegundude User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Western NC Posts: 1,137 Thanks: 3 Thanked 16 Times in 3 Posts	Now that's what I like to hear.... Fair is fair and that was more than fair. Now you can say that the papers are a neat novelty, if nothing else... __________________ Keep your knees in the breeze and your iron in the air. ~Steve

09-14-2005, 08:34 PM	#15
c3006 User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: east tn Posts: 526 Thanks: 5 Thanked 12 Times in 5 Posts	I would love to see pics of the pistol that came with the papers if you get the chance. __________________ Men Accustomed unto thier arms and their liberties will never endure the yoke. James Harrington 1776

09-14-2005, 10:00 PM	#17
c3006 User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: east tn Posts: 526 Thanks: 5 Thanked 12 Times in 5 Posts	Thanks __________________ Men Accustomed unto thier arms and their liberties will never endure the yoke. James Harrington 1776

09-21-2005, 10:38 PM	#18
byf42 User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Great Plains Posts: 74 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I purchased a luger about 2 years ago which had very different looking capture papers than the one above. Also included was the customs declaration form. I bought this directly from the estate. About a year ago I purchased a '38 s/42 with papers identical to the one above. I did a little research and discovered that they were bogus papers. I received a refund from the seller and about 6 months ago saw another '38 s/42 with capture papers that had the same Lieutenant's name on the bottom, but from a different unit. This gun was at a different table, different vendor. I definitely take any paperwork with a grain of salt now.

09-22-2005, 05:31 AM	#19
c3006 User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: east tn Posts: 526 Thanks: 5 Thanked 12 Times in 5 Posts	Its a shame that some people have no conscience about tampering with history. __________________ Men Accustomed unto thier arms and their liberties will never endure the yoke. James Harrington 1776

09-22-2005, 01:25 PM	#20
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	I love the capture papers, makes it part of history, but don't let it make the "value" go higher (unless you are SURE they are real and then I'd add $50 tops). ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV